781
10
13585
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/e23aa4709690189236fdca102a64f06d.pdf
90de9e75df8545da77b55495edb8c5d8
PDF Text
Text
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO
DAY CARE NEWS
October 1990
DAY CARE NEWS is a forum for the sharing of information between day
care groups throughout the region, as well as providing information
about what's happening on the federal and provincial scenes, both
in terms of governmental policy/legislation and advocacy groups'
activities.
We hope that this newsletter will combat some of the isolation that
day care workers and advocates feel and that through the sharing of
resources, ideas and action plans, we can develop strategies to
ensure the growth and strengthening of quality day care in our
region.
We welcome submissions to this newsletter from every day care
centre and committee throughout Northwestern Ontario. Please send
articles, news clippings, letters, etc. to Box 144, Thunder Bay,
Ontario P7C 4VS.
******************************************************************
WHAT'S IN THIS ISSUE?
CONTENT
PAGE
A New Government Leads
Child Care Into The 90,s 1
Zanana Akande, New
Minister of Community
and Social Services
2
Staff Shortages in North
Western Ontario
3
Three Cabinet Ministers
From Northwestern Ontario 4
Dryden Day Care News
5
Quality Child Care
Provides Enriched Learning
Environment
5
Fall Forum and Lobby of
M.P.P. 's, Nov. 7 & 8
7
Upcoming Events
8
1991 Membership
9
A NEW GOVERNMENT
LEADS CHILD CARE
INTO THE 90'S
On September 6 the people of
Ontario
made
history
by
electing a New Democratic Party
Government.
This
historic
moment means new challenges for
the Child Care Community.
For the first time the elected
government has a party policy
that reflects what child care
advocates have been saying.
Advocates have long said that
Children in Ontario deserve a
child care system that ensures
they
have
access
to
universally-accessible
and
comprehensive child care where
there are no barriers due to
cost, age, hours, geography,
culture, language, disability
or other special needs.
�•
The compatibility of the NDP's
policy
statements
and
what
advocates have been saying means
that we may see a light at the
end of the tunnel.it gives us a
great deal of optimism.
This does not mean that we can
stop lobbying or informing people
about child care.
What it means
is that child care advocates must
be even clearer in what they
want.
There is a government in
Ontario that will now listen.
They believe in a comprehensive
child care system and campaigned
on
that
issue
in
the
1987
campaign.
They will want to implement a
comprehensive system, not just
band-aids.
Members of the child
care community must present to
the government exactly what they
want.
Do we want child care in
the school system? Do we want a
Ministry of the Young Child? How
do we want child care funded?
Presently the child care system
is
under
the
Ministry
of
Community and Social Services, do
we want
it to
remain
there?
These are just a few questions
that we must come to consensus
on.
Your first opportunity to
have
input
into
the
new
government will be on November 7
and 8 in Toronto.
The Ontario
Coalition for Better Child Care
is holding their Fall Forum and
Lobby with the M.P.P. 's at this
time. ( see Fall Forum and Lobby
later in this newsletter)
The 'U-TURN' proposal will be
presented
to
the
Forum
for
participants
input.
This
document will also be available
at
N.W.O.R.D.C.C.
office
by
October 2 5. 1990.
If you would
like a copy please call 807-3458803. ( please leave your name and
address on the machine)
ZANANA AKANDE, NEW MINISTER OF
COMMUNITY AND SOCIAL $ERVICES
The new Minister of Community
and Social Services has been
described as an educator, a
community
activist,
an
outspoken
advocate
for
children, women, the poor, and
the homeless and a democratic
socialist.
Years of activism
to effect social justice for
all prepare her for her new
role.
The Minister is well-known and
respected throughout Ontario as
a
gifted
speaker.
workshop
leader
and
presenter
at
educational
conferences,
programs.
meetings
of
professional womens' groups and
community organizations.
She
has
also
taught
at
the
University of Toronto,
York
University and prior to being
elected
was
Principal,
the
George Syme a Community School
in the City of York ( Toronto
Area) .
Her many community activities
have included serving on the
Ministry
of
Community
and
Social
Services
Advisory
Committee
on
Childrens'
Services.
She now represents
the riding of St. Andrew-St.
Patrick.
Please welcome the Minister to
her new responsibilities and
remind her that child care
deserves special attention by
writing to her:
The Honourable Zanana Akande
Minister
of
Community
and
Social Services
Hepburn Block
Queen's Park
Toronto, Ontario
M7A TE9
�October Page 3
STAFF SHORTAGES IN NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO
One of the major difficulties in the remote regions of
the province is obtaining qualified staff and keeping them.
This
problem has recently become acute in the Northwest.
From 1986 to
the present the turnover in Supervisors in the region has been 50%
in Native Child Care Centres and 72% in the small regional
communities.
Several have turned over two or three times during
this time period.
Child care centres located outside the Thunder
Bay area find it difficult to attract ECE graduates for teach
positions. Some reasons for the shortages of qualified staff are:
1) The threat of closure (1983-1986) took it's toll and some
workers sought other jobs or went back to university;
2)
The uncertainty of the future of day care in their
community may have discouraged students from taking ECE;
3) Some workers who graduated in the late 70's and early 80's
are now raising children of their own and staying home for a
few years;
4)
Low wages;
5) A greater degree of professional self esteem is available
in other fields; and
6)
High worker mobility in Northwestern Ontario, therefore
leaving community because of spouse's employment.
Recently the Native Communities in Northwestern Ontario
expressed interest in the concept of Confederation College
delivering an Early Childhood Education Program directly to their
reserves.
As a result of these inquiries, the college held a series
of Native Early Childhood Education Conferences to gain the Native
Community's perspective on the provision of E. C. E. training.
Conferences were held in Sioux Lookout, Kenora, and Thunder Bay.
These Conferences produced a great deal of information on:
-how much interest communities have for E.C.E. training on
reserves,
-which communities may be interested,
-program models on how to deliver training,
-issues related to the delivery of training on reserves,
-recommendations on how the college should proceed in a number
of areas related to delivery, curriculum,
support for
learners, and other areas as identified by participants.
As a result of these conferences and the recommendations
in the report of the conferences, the expectations and enthusiasm
for an on-site pilot project has been created.
Seven Native
communities expressed and interest in becoming possible pilot
project sites for September of 1990. Unfortunately, no funding was
made available this September. Is this another case of receiving
input from the community and then shelving the information? Seven
Native Communities would like the answer to this question.
�October Page 4
Many child care advocates feel that one of the solutions
to the staffing shortage should be that Early Childhood Educators
in Ontario should receive a Pay Equity Grant directly from the
Government of Ontario.
This could be done through Proxy
Comparisons with municipal governments for a Regional Wage
Adjustment, of through Proxy Comparisons with the Provincial
Government for an Average Wage Adjustment.
A recent study showed that higher paid ECE provided
higher quality care ie) wages have a direct correlation with
quality care services, Therefore Pay Equity Grants would serve to
consolidate the existing Child Care System.
Existing Child Care
Programs would be strengthened.
High turnover rates would
stabilize--an average ECE only stays in the field for three years.
A higher wage will keep qualified staff in the field longer.
Stable staffing is another indicator of Quality Child Care. Higher
wages would attract those ECE who have left the field, back into
the field, thereby alleviating trained staff shortages. Pay Equity
could be a solution.
The growth of child care in the Northwe·st is in a
precarious state.
Service delivery to many communities has been
non-existent.
Of the 171 communi~ies in Northwestern Ontario,
only 20 provide child care services, with 6 additional communities
having nursery school opportunities for children.
The child care
community in Northwestern Ontario must communicate our concerns
regarding the availability and the staffing of child care centres
in Northwestern Ontario to our M.P.P.s.
Now is the time to meet
with the M.P.P.s, to ensure that they understand and remember the
special circumstances of child care in Northwestern Ontario.
THREE CABINET MINISTERS FROM
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO
As of September 6, we welcome and congratulate the new
M.P.P. from Port Arthur Riding, The Honourable · Shelley Wark-Martyn,
who is the new Minister of Revenue. Congratulations also to those
returning to office:
Lyn McLeod, M.P.P. for Fort William Riding,
Frank Miklash, M.P~P. for Kenora Riding,
Gilles Pouliot, M.P.P. for Lake Nipigon and the new Minister
of Mines, with responsibility for Francophone Affairs, and
Howard Hampton, M.P.P. for Rainy River and the new Attorney
General.
As you will note Northwestern Ontario has a very strong
voice in the Cabinet.
It is important that we keep in touch with
our M.P.P. 's.
The three Cabinet Ministers will have extremely
�October Page 5
heavy agendas.
While
they may be
more favourable
to
a
comprehensive child care program, they will also be busy with other
things. It is up to us to ensure that child care is not forgotten.
Some things that you can do are to write and congratulate all the
members. This can be done creatively with the children helping or
with a letter from your day care.
You should also remember to
invite them to visit your centre.
DRYDEN DAY CARE NEWS:
by Lynn Carlson
Karen Sourtzis, Day Care Supervisor has returned from a
one years leave of absence. Karen has since married Spuro Sourtzis
on October 6, 1990, in Thunder Bay.
Congratulations Karen!
A contract was signed between architect (Osburn, Cotnam
and Belair) and Horst Lang Construction Ltd., clearing the way for
the work to begin on a new Resource Building in Dryden.
The new
Centre will include a Day Care Centre for 48 preschoolers, an
integrated Nursery School Program that serves approximately 60
children and a Toy Library/Resource Centre.
Expected completion
date is June 1991.
Future plans are to integrate the Day Care
Program and to offer a Home Day Care Service to meet the needs of
infants and school age children.
Currently the Centre's enrolment capacity is 45.
To
improve the quality of the program and to ensure that the needs of
the individual child and his/her family are met, the schedule has
been divided into two separate programs.
This makes for a much
calmer day as for any large group activity such as lunch, outdoor
play etc. is not 24 children.
Three full time Early Childhood
Educators work with each group.
QUAL.ITY
CH.ILD
CA.RE
LEA.RN.ING .ENV.IRO.NZ<-1'ENT
PROV.ID.ES
.ENR.ICH.ED
By Teresa Legowski
Although I had some trepidations, my daughter was eager
to begin Junior Kindergarten.
She had been par ti cipa ting in a
child care program on a part time basis, which had a Waldorf
philosophical slant. Of course, to me, this is a quality program:
child and play centred, emphasizing the seasonal nature of the
world and full of lyrical stories, "natural" toys and an importance
placed on crafts.
The staff child ratios is one to five.
Before I decided on a junior kindergarten program I asked
a teacher friend of mine if she could recommend a particular JK
teacher and she did.
It turned out that the school where this
teacher worked was in the area where my daughter would go to
school,
so I
considered this lucky.
Entering the junior
kindergarten program showed a world of difference when I compared
�October Page 6
it to my daughter's child care experience:
activity centres
designed to handle tiventy children so that one teacher could
manage, each centre play oriented but designed to limit the number
of children participating at each, programming geared to the lowest
common denominator, requests for parent volunteers to help, much
less individual attention, more cut and paste and less craft type
activities.
Welcome to the elementary school system!
I have had the opportunity to speak with my daughter's
teacher on several occasions now and I admire her experience and
rapport with the children and their parents.
She is an excellent
teacher. But she readily admits that although play is the best way
by which children learn, that JK and SK are the only programs in
the elementary system in which it is offered, all be it in a very
structured environment. She admits that to organize a play centred
learning environment for children takes a lot of time and
commitment from a teacher.
Such a task is a heavy responsibility
for just one teacher.
So, for me it comes down to two things:
Quality
education is based on the teacher/child ratio and a play centred
learning environment.
Both these are favourable in child care
centres.
Child care centres offer quality education for children
in an enriched environment.
So my daughter goes half days to JK
and three half days a week to child care because I do not want her
to lose that enriched learning experience.
Just as an example, my
daughter took a piece of scrap material, some thread and a needle
(which I helped her thread) and sewed a very simple skirt for
herself.
She is four years old and learned how to do this at her
child care centre.
I feel sad when I see that other children have not had
this opportunity, simply because these quality child care programs
are not universally accessible. I feel frustrated that my daughter
attends a quality program for a half day and a mediocre program for
the other half.
As a parent, I want to see quality child care
programming across the board for all children.
I want to see one
government Ministry responsible for all children so that this
double standard can be eliminated and that all children will have
the same opportunities.
I firmly believe that the standards for
child care by far excel the standards for the same aged children in
the elementary school system, and that these are the standards that
should be implemented and enforced (over-ruling local Boards of
Education), if child care does eventually become an extension of
the school system.
�•
October Page 7
FALL FORUM AND LOBBY OF M.P.P.S,
NOVEMBER 7 AND 8 IN TORONTO
Individuals attending this Forum and Lobby will have the
opportunity to have input and hear what others have to say about
the 'U-Turn' proposal that is being recommended by the executive of
the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care.
This proposal would
turn the funding for child care on its head. Rather than it being
a user-fee system, propped up with Government subsidies of various
forms, as it is now, it would become primarily a Government-funded
service and the recovery of costs would be separately administered.
This is an exciting concept and needs vast circulation and
discussion in the next few weeks.
The resulting paper will be
presented to the new Government as the direction that we, in the
child care movement, would like to see the new Government take.
The U-Turn paper is the major focus of the Forum but,
workshops on the following topic areas will also be offered.
1)
The Child Care Network as a Lobby Group
2)
The Computerization Project
3) Child Care Review:
The CCR: A new method for child care
program evaluation
4) Child Care Overdue: Billing the province for funding long
overdue.
How does it work? How can your child care program
participate?
5) Child Care Staffing Caucus: A strategy session for child
care staff.
6) Activities and Projects of the New Network. What's in it
for you?
How to use the new services to help your program:
accounting; insurance; manuals _;; training programs and more.
7)
The Annual Child Care Cycle:
An Overview for Boards of
Directors and Child Care Administrators.
8)
Pay Equity of the Art of Achieving the Impossible:
A
Balance Sheet for child care staff.
9)
The future of Child Care Under The New Democrats.
On November the 8th a Lobby of M.P.P.s will take place at
Queen's Park. For those of you who have not taken part in a lobby,
this is an opportunity to meet other child care advocates from
across the province and with 2 or 3 others meet with an M.P.P. or
Cabinet Minister.
This is a great learning experience.
If you would like to attend the Forum and Lobby or want
a copy of the 'U-Turn' proposal. please call the N. W. O. R. D. c. c.
office (807-475-5243). There are some subsidies available for the
Lobby and Forum in Toronto.
�•
October Page 8
U.PCO~ING
EVENTS
If you have an upcoming event
please let us know.
We will try
to let you know about conferences
etc. in advance.
It is a good
idea, to keep this information so
that at budget time your centre
will know the type of things that
are offered throughout the year
and can budget appropriately. We
try to negotiate travel subsidies
in our budgets, so the cost to
your
organization
is
not
as
great.
Please let us know about
upcoming events.
1990
November
7
and
8--Ontario
Coalition for Better Child Care
Annual Fall Forum and Lobby
Tqronto
1991
January 18. School age Workshop,
"Meeting Their Needs" 9a. m.
to
3:30 p.m. Airlane Hotel, Thunder
Bay
Sponsored by the Association for
Early Childhood Education
Cost $50 Contact Debbie Dubeau
344-2465.
January
19,
Next
meeting
N.W.O.R.D.C.C. Council in Thunder
Bay
March 1 & • 2 tentative date for
our Spring Forum
March 22, Infant Care Workshop
9a.m. to 3:30p.m. Airlane Hotel,
Thunder Bay. Sponsored by the
Association for Early Childhood
Education
Cost $50 Contact Debbie Dubeau
344-2465.
April
or
May,
Spring
Conference-Ontario
Coalition
for Better Child Care
September 25, 26, 27. -Thunder
Bay--The conference hotel will
be the Valhalla Inn.
Al though
the
conference
is
Private home Day Care. plans
are to ensure workshops and
sessions
for
all
persons
involved in child care are
available.
For
example:
administration.
native
and
francophone, centre base re:
infants. toddlers. pre-school
age will be some of the key
areas addressed.
If you have any suggestion or
ideas, pleas fonvard them to
Sandra Livingston.
Children's
Services
CoOrdinator
86 S. Cumberland St.,
Thunder Bay, Ont.,
P7B 6G7,
telephone 625-2183.
October Ontario Coalition for
Better Child Care-Fall Forum
and Lobby
�'
October Page 9
1991 MEMBERSHIP
At the 1988 Forum a membership structure for the Northwestern
Ontario Regional Day Care Committee was approved. Memberships are
now available.
Membership categories are:
Category A:
Municipal Councils/Indian Band Council; Day Care
Centres; Professional Organizations; Regional
Associations; Labour Unions.
Fee:
$50.00
Category B:
Parent Groups, Voluntary Community Organizations.
Fee:
$25.00
Category C:
Individuals.
Fee:
$5.00
To join, please complete this application form, detach and return
to: N.W.O.R.O.C.C.
P.O. Box 144
Thunder Bay, Ont.
P7C 4V5
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
/
I
I
1991 MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION
I believe in the purpose of The Northwestern
Ontario Regional Day Care Committee and I
wish to become a member.
Signature
Name: _______________________
Address: _____________________
Postal Code: ___________________
Phone Number:
Category:
- - - - - -Fee
A_ _
B_ __
Enclosed
-----
C
---
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thank you for your support.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News, October 1990
Subject
The topic of the resource
Organizations
Description
An account of the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News October 1990. Includes information about the elected New Democratic Party Government and Zanana Akande Minister of Community and Social Services; focus on child care for Northwestern Ontario including child care staff, ECE graduates, Native Early Childhood Education, and child care centres; elected MPPs Lyn McLeod, Frank Miklash, Gilles Pouliot, and Howard Hampton; day care news for Dryden; Quality Child Care Provides Enriched Learning Environment by Teresa Legowski; Fall Forum and Lobby of MPPs in Toronto with Ontario Colalition for Better Child Care and the U-Turn Proposal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1990-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee: under copyright.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
nwodcn_90oct
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
Canada - Ontario - Dryden
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/10ee6ed418046b6975e00ffdf46abfeb.pdf
442cb47177ce2f681ed108ab865257f3
PDF Text
Text
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO DAY CARE
NEws ·
May 1991
DAY CARE NEWS is a forum for the sharing of information between day
care groups throughout the region, as well as providing information
about what is happening on the federal, provincial, regional and
local scenes, in terms of policy, legislation, advocacy groups'
activities,
parental concerns and other interests that our
supporters may have.
We hope that this newsletter will combat some of the isolation that
day care workers and advocates feel and that through the sharing of
resources, ideas and action plans, we can develop strategies to
ensure the growth and strengthening of quality day care in
Northwestern Ontario.
We welcome submissions to this newsletter from every day care
centre and committee throughout our region.
Please send articles,
news clippings, letters, etc. to Box 144, Thunder Bay, Ontario, P7C
4V5.
------------------------------------------------------------------WHAT'S IN THIS ISSUE?
Minimal Growth of Subsidized Spaces in Northwestern Ontario
Private Home Day Care Conference
6th Annual Forum A Great Success
New Elementary Schools= New Child Care Centres
Professional Development Sessions A Priority
New NWORDCC Council Members
Provincial Budget- A Day Care Overview
Welcome to New Faces in New Positions
Coalition Launches Child Care Network
Day Care: Making a profit on baby?
*Please note the NWORDCC membership drive letter included in this
newsletter. Please pass it on if you are already a member.
�,
Minimal Growth of Subsidized Spaces
Northwestern Ontarfo
by Lynn Carlson
Supervis~ng Early Childhood Educator
Dryden Day Care Centre
- On January 31, 1991, Zanana Akande announced that 5,000 of the
10,000 additional subsidized spaces recommended by the Ontario
Coalition for Better Child Care had been created.
Unfortunately
the north will be receiving only 176 of the 5,000 spaces.
The
north begins at Muskoka which is only two hours away from Toronto.
There were already 1,000 children on waiting lists in Northwestern
Ontario alone, as of January 1, 1991.
If approximately 75% of
these children qualify for subsidy, how far will 176 additional
spaces go when these must be shared with Northeastern Ontario? It
has been determined that 51 of these new subsidies will be given to
the Northwest.
There seems to be a real inconsistency in the way that
subsidies are distributed.
For example, Fort Frances is licensed
for 48 children and is approved for 33 subsidized spaces.
Sioux
Lookout has a license capacity of 48 and has 28 approved subsidized
spaces available.
In Atikokan, only 8 subsidized spaces are
available through the municipality for 39 children.
But, in Dryden, we presently have ministry approval to
subsidize 45 children (our full enrolment), if their families are
determined through needs testing to be eligible.
(All of our
parents are encouraged to take this needs test with no stigma
attached.)
Approval has already been given for three additional
subsidy spaces when our license increases to accommodate 48
children in our new building.
Our town treasurer and the support our child care centre
receives from our town council and administrative staff can be
given the credit for the success Dryden has had in obtaining
subsidized spaces. We have applied for additional spaces in stages
as our families' needs have changed.
We are now servicing more
single parent families than ever before.
We ensure that the
requests are accompanied by documentation that demonstrates the
need t ·or more spaces ( using such information as waiting list
figures).
Our program supervisor has been very cooperative and
supportive of our program needs.
We have returned that cooperation by giving up some subsidized
spaces when the ministry requests or during periods of low
enrolment.
We reapply when enrolment increases.
When problems
have arisen between the town administration and the Ministry
office, the town has not hesitated to arrange meetings with higher
levels of government.
It is a shame that our situation is not
consistent within other communities.
�It seems that the problem of obtaining adequate numbers of
subsidy spaces may be at the municipal level rather than the
provincial.
Should the distribution of subsidized spaces be
determined by the abilities and willingness of municipal leaders
and
municipal
administration
to
negotiate
with
government
officials? Since some communities are not as prosperous as others,
complete provincial funding of subsidized spaces could even out
some of the discrepancies.
Child care spaces should be universally available and families
in need should have the opportunity to have child care costs
subsidized.
The 51 additional spaces allocated for all of
Northwestern Ontario cannot do much to change the present
situation.
Editor's Note:
The way the provincial government
subsidized spaces was as follows:
distributed
the
5,000
Toronto: 4,000 spaces
500 spaces
Ottawa :
500 spaces according to population
Rest of Ontario:
PRIVATE HOME DAY CARE CONFERENCE
Sandra
Livingston,
the
Children's Services Coordinator
with the City's Social Services
Department
is
looking
for
volunteers
to
work
on
the
following committees:
Workshop host/hostess
Entertainment
(Thursday
evening)
Commercial exhibits
Workshop set up - posters/signs
News media
Evaluation form
Silent auction - fund raising
Wine & cheese evening
Speaker/workshop
leaders
(honorarium)
Audio-visual
(workshop
requests)
Promotional items
(available
for purchase)
Transportation (airport/hotel)
Program brochure
Conference kits
Pre-registration
on
site
registration, desk accomodation
Meals, coffee breaks
Hospitality suite
If you wish to participate as a
volunteer
contact
Sandra
Livingston, 86 S. Cumberland
St., Thunder Bay, ONT P7B 6G7
The City of Thunder Bay will be
hosting the 1991 Private Home
Day
Care
Conference
this
SEPTEMBER 25th, 26th, 27th at
the Valhalla Inn.
The NWORDCC
is looking for a delegate to
send to this conference.
If
you operate a private home day
care program and you wish to
attend please let Margaret or
Barbara know.
�(>
6TH
ANNUAL
FORUM A
SUCCESS
GREAT
The sixth Annual NW Ontario
Regional
Day
Care
Forum
convened in Thunder Bay on
March 22/23, 1991.
The forum
brought together 78 child care
advocates
(parents,
workers,
administrators, ECE students)
from 12 communities to assess
current day care issues and
develop strategies to continue
advocacy for a comprehensive,
high quality, non-profit child
care system.
The opening key note speaker
Friday
evening
was
Laurel
Rothman, past president of the
Ontario Coalition for Better
Child
Care
( OCBCC).
She
provided an overview of child .
care issues from a national and
provincial perspective, as well
as information about current
activities of the Coalition in
its attempts to influence child
care policy.
On Saturday morning. a regional
panel composed of Oni Kredl
(Marathon).
Rob
Stinchcombe
( Kaministiquia). Lynn Carlson
(Dryden},
Janet
McCauley
( Atikokan)
and
Anita
Price
( Thunder Bay) identified key
concerns
experienced
in
NW
Ontario.
These included:
staff
wages,
fund
raising
problems faced by non profit
Boards,
accessibility,
municipal
discretion,
inadequacy of guidelines for
capital projects, insufficiency
of capital funding, lack of
standardization, inadequacy of
subsidized spaces and northern
funding inequities.
On Saturday afternoon. Hargaret
Phillips addressed the torum
about the worsening situation
in child care.
She focused on
our
failure
to
obtain
provincial policies sensitive
to NW Ontario needs, the lack.
of administrative support for
child care, and the cutbacks in
training
opportunities
tor
northern
communities
th a t
impact most negatively on the
small, regional municipalities
and Native communities.
She
stressed
that
child
care
advocates must continue their
activism
to
resolve
these
problems.
Pay equity and the Coalition's
U-Turn document were examined
during two workshops Saturday
morning.
The forum formally endorsed in
principle
the
working
document, "Child
Care
in
Ontario: Making the Shift to
the 1990's", and recommended
the
Coalition
continue
to
encourage
the
Ontario
government to implement the
features of this program as
quickly as possible.
The annual business meeting was
conducted during the noon hour,
at
which
time
the
1991/92
representatives to the NWORDCC
Council were chosen.
�NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS= NEW CHILD CARE CENTRES
by Bobbi Tamblyn ..
In the last newsletter, I told you about the new Roman Catholic
school in County Park in Thunder Bay which will have a child care
facility included. Since then, I have taken on two new projects the Lakehead Board and the Nipigon-Red Rock Board of Education.
The Lakehead Board is building in Slate River.
The Slate/Blake
project is the first rural project in Thunder Bay.
The Nipigon-Red Rock Board is building in Dorion.
Both are
targeted for a September 1992 opening.
Slate/Blake has already
broken ground; County Park is at the sketch plan stage; Dorion is
in the initial drawing stage.
All of these projects are very exciting and each has its own unique
qualities.
The groups from all the Boards of Education are very
progressive and enthusiastic. We are presently in need of a Board
of Directors for each of the projects. Please call me, Bobbi, the
Child Care Consultant, at (807) 625-1545 for further discussion and
clarifications on any of these exciting new projects.
I welcome
any comments and suggestions.
Have a great summer!
PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SESSIONS
BOARDS AND STAFF A PRIORITY
FOR
by Dianne Loucks
Child Care Community Development Consultant
By this time all programs in
the District of Thunder Bay
will have received a copy of up
coming sessions for May and
June, 1991.
These sessions
will be a primary focus for the
1991/92 year.
Some of the activities planned
include:
professional
development sessions;
developing AECEO membership in
the
reg ion;
development
of
program
listings
for
the
district; individual sessions
with
programs
and
boards;
assisting new groups with needs
assessments
and
proposals;
producing a guideline paper for
MCSS
and
the
Minstry
of
Education.
I look forward to working with
individuals and groups to raise
the image of child care in our
communities.
By focusing on
our
similarities
and
the
quality care of children, we
will continue to build on a
solid foundation.
�,.
Board and Staff Professional Development
Sessions
OPEN TO ALL
subsidized).
AREA
CHILD
CARE
PROGRAMS
(Sorry,
travel
is
not
Sessions will be held if there is sufficient registration. Please
confirm your attendance by phone 622-0201. Should numbers not be
sufficient. the session will not be held.
Please check prior to
the date.
FUND
PROPOSAL
INVOLVING THE
RAISING, ·
DEVELOPMENT AND
COMMUNITY
IMPROVING COMMUNICATIONS
MANAGING CONFLICT
AND
1.
May 23, 1991
Manitouwadge, Township
Office, 7-9pm.
1.
June 18, 1991
Geraldton, Geraldton Day
Care Centre, 7-9 p.m.
2.
May 30, 1991
Thunder Bay, Brodie
Resource Library,
7-9pm.
2.
June 24, 1991
Thunder Bay, Waverley
Resource Library,
7-9 p.m.
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO REGIONAL
DAY CARE COMMITTEE
COUNCIL MEMBERS 1991/92
Kenora Constituency
Port Arthur Constituency
Lynn Carlson- Dryden
Lulubelle Kabestra- Whitefish
Bay
Lucille Kelly- Nestor Falls
Julie Gauthier- Balmertown
Anita Price- Thunder Bay
Sandra Snider- Thunder Bay
Rob Stinchcombe- Kaministiquia
Rainy River Constituency
Fort William ConstituenGy
Mary Ducharme- Fort Frances
Joanne Tremblay- Atikokan
Betty Anne West- Fort Frances
Fran Dalrymple- Thunder Bay
Lorrie LaDelle- Thunder Bay
Myrna Sawchuk- Thunder Bay
Lake Nipigon Constituency
Veronica Kreidl- Marathon
Nancy Proteau- Geraldton
�PROVINCIAL BUDGET- A DAY CARE OVERVIEW
Along with other activists the NWORDCC anxiously awaited the
provincial budget that was announced April 29th.
We view the
budget with mixed reactions.
We support the thrust of the budget
policies developed. We ara pleased with the initiatives that will
impact positively in Northwestern Ontario such as support to Native
communities,
improved health transportation funding,
and the
initiatives that will support organizations working to end violence
against women.
However we are concerned by the absence from the
budget of a demonstrated commitment to restructure child care in
Ontario.
We have written to Treasurer Floyd Laughren to express
our concern and to urge the Ontario government to immediaiely begin
the process to fundamentally restructure child care to ensure the
development of the comprehensive, high-quality, non-profit child
care system we need.
We recognize the constraints the provincial treasurer faced in
developing the budget.
Huch of the deficit cudge te d for is a
direct result of federal government policies. $3.5 billion in lost
revenue is due to cuts in transfer payments and the cap on the
Canada Assistance Plan.
Changes in unemployment insurance are
forcing more and more of the unemployed onto welfare.
Welfare
costs are expected to reach $4.9 billion this year, up from $2.5
billion two years ago.
An unemployment rate of 10 pe~ cent,
representing 184,000 jobs lost in the economy, is directly related
to the free trade agreement, a high dollar and high interest rates.
The provincial budget held the 1 ine on child care with a S 4 6 5
million commitment, up from $396 million in 1990.
This figure
includes the previously announced $30 million down payment on pay
equity and the $22.8 million commited to bringing 5000 neH spaces
on line. The only new initiative directly mentioned in the budget
is $5 million in capital funding for Native centres on reserves.
Other budget initiatives that may have an impact on child care
include:
a review of educational facilities towards a community-based,
multi-use of schools is already underway.
A $300 million capital
fund for schools, beginning in 1994,
will incorporate this
approach.
an additional $25 million has been earmarked for pay equity
settlements for smaller agencies which could be of assistance to
child care workers who are now excluded from the down payment .
. a $215 million package for welfare reform includes an expansion
of the SEP program, part of which is earmarked for child care
costs.
�,
Recent correspondence from the Hon. Zanana Akande. Minister of
Community and Social Services, informs us that the Ministry has
initiated a "comprehensive review of the child care system with the
goal to make it more accessible and affordable". The NWORDCC must
analyze this review and continue to press for a fundamental
restructuring of child care that will take into account the funding
inequities experienced by •northern child care. and ensure the
comprehensive and equitable system that Ontario families need.
WELCOME
Kerry Mccuaig as the new Executive Director of
the Ontario Coalition for Better Child C~re.
Barbara Lysnes as summer staff for the N.W.O.R.D.C.C.
Margaret Phillips is taking a well-earned holiday.
ONTARIO COALITION FOR BETTER CHILD CARE
LAUNCHES CHILD CARE NETWORK
The Coalition is offering membership in a network that will
facilitate badly needed training. benefits, and accounting and
administrative services to child care programs across the province.
The Network is also designed to expand and strengthen the lobbying
structure of the Coalition.
ANNUAL NETWORK MEMBERSHIP FEES
Child Care Centres
Private Home Day Care Agencies
Other unlicensed Child Care
Related Programs
NETWORK SERVICES
$125 plus Sl per licensed child
care space
$ 75 per agency plus S1 per home
S
50 per program
For more information contact the Coalition
at (416) 324-9080
. representation at Coalition Council and Executive Table; advocacy
on issues of interest to Network members.
special training workshops on advocacy,
board and staff
development,
general
administration,
program
evaluation,
multicultural and special needs programming; preferred registration
in all educational events, conferences, seminars.
access to the Coalition information and resource centre and
consultation and referral services, including the video library;
one free copy of all Coalition and Network publications.
participation in central 1 y administered staff insurance and
benefits package; access to benefit levels and rates usually only
available to very large employers .
. preferred rates on Coalition's computerized Financial Management
Services package, and new computer software programs for day care.
�Pay equity has added
a new wrinlde
• to an old debate
By Julie Mathieu
THOUGH THE debate about the
•
nee<tfor or desirability of child
•
care has long since been
•resolved. the question of how it should
be paid for is still lively, even
rancorous.
In the main, there are two kinds of
•. child care - profit and non-profit.
These terms describe not just two sets
of ledgers but two different
• understandings of the same important
task.
• Whether there should be profit in
child care at all has been ·questioned
repeatedly since the mid-1970s. That's
•. when child care advocates noted how
• quickly large, commercial operators
supported unsuccessful government
. attempts to reduce the standards
·, regulating child care in Ontario.
, Tensions since then between the
commercial sector and non-profit
• advocates have focused on this
question: Is it appropriate to provide
public money to commercial child
.care?
Whether Conservative, Liberal or
New Democrat, successive Ontario
• governments since the 1970s have
provided money to encourage child
• care expansion. When the Conservative
• government made available capital and
'. start-up funding, only non-profit and
publicly operated centres were eligible.
The Liberals differentiated between
•for-profit and non-profit programs in
•allocating grants to raise staff salaries.
The New Democrats continued this
r.rogression when they announced a
; 'down payment" on pay equity for
•child care staff. Under this initiative,
government funds will help child care
•programs with the cost of meeting the
· salary increases arising from the first
step toward pay equity. The funds will
be provided only to non-profit
. programs.
. Governments, both P,ast and present,
have recognized the difference between
for-profit and non-profit child care. In a
commercial centre, individuals or
corporations hold equity and earn
profit. Non-profit centres are operated
by boards of directors elected by the
members. Surplus (an unlikely event,
since non-profit budgets are calculated
on a break-even basis) does not go out
as profit. but must be put back into the
child t.'Ve program.
When resources are removed from a
program in the form of profit, the
impact is significant. Research has
repeatedly shown that the for-profit
sector is more likely to deliver poor
quality care.
: Child care centre owners have
• •
always protested what they perceive as
the favored status of the non-profit sector. This time, both owners and staff
in commercial centres have claimed
that the government pay equity funding
initiative discriminates against them.
The staff are right in one respect: ~
underpaid female workers in a
ghettoized profession, they deserve
equal pay for work of equal value. They
have, however, chosen the wrong
target for their dissatisfaction. The
money for pay equity for staff in
commercial day cares should not come
from the public purse but from the_, .
profits of the.owners - the employers.
Fees to parents in for-profit centres
generally keep pace with those in
non-profits even though staff salaries
have traditionally been lower in
commercial child care. The bulk of the
profit is generated by this difference in
salaries.
The prospect of t>roviding pay equity
adjustments to their employees bas
elicited the same response from child
care owners that is heard from other
businesses: They insist that pay equity
is unaffordable. They threaten that
centres will close and that children will
P
ARTICULARLY during a
recession, when revenue is
down, government should not
give funds to commercial child care to
assist with pay equity. Funds for this
purpose already exist in the form of
profit. However, dealing with the entire
situation is not simple. It involves more
players than government and needs a
more complicated response than a
simple refusal.
Parents in for-profit programs may
be panicked at threats of fee increases
to cover the salary raises resulting from
pa;: equity. They should support the
child care staff 1n their legitimate
desire for fair wages, funded by the
owners' profits.
Commercial child care operators
often maintain that they do not make a
profit. If parents are convinced that this
1s the case in their child's centre, they
might want to discuss with the owner
the possibility that the best business
option might be to convert to non-profit
status.
As for staff in commercial centres,
they deserve the same pay equit)'
adjustments as their colleagues in the
non-profit sector and shoufd demand
suffer.
fair compensation from their
employers .
The owners have also made it clear
The provincial government has both
that, if they do stay in business, they
short- and long-term obligations.
will raise parent fees to cover the cost
Owners of for-profit centres will need
of pay equity rather than dip into their
government information on how they
profit margin.
.
can implement pay equity. In addition.
How much of the cost of conducting
the province must provide assistance in
business should government
underwrite? As representatives of labor converting commercial centres to
non-profit status when the owner
have pointed out. other: employers,
wishes to do so or when the owner
especially those operating small
decides to shut down. Sound
businesses, could make the same
government direction can mean that
argument for publi~ fund~ to
.
centres will not close and child care
implement pay equity. Child care 1s
spaces.will not be lost.
more complex than, say, ladies'
Finall)f, government must start to
clothin_g because there is a non-profit
change the child care system so that it
sector tor comparison. The child care
becomes a public service rather than
owners maintain that they should be
able to compete with non-profit centres remaining simply another element in
the marketplace.
in the areas of staff salaries and fees to
families. However, they don't want to
0 Julle Mathlen Is a child care adviser
spend their own funds to do this; they
with the Toronto Board of EducaUon.
want to spend tax· dollars.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News, May 1991
Subject
The topic of the resource
Organizations
Description
An account of the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News May 1991. Includes information about subsidized child care spaces in Northwestern Ontario; Private Home Day Care Conference in Thunder Bay; the sixth Annual Northwestern Ontario Regional Day Care Forum; Boards of Education child care centres in Thunder Bay and Dorion; Professional Development for the Child Care Community in the District of Thunder Bay; provincial budget overview with a focus on child care funding, pay equity and welfare reform; Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care launching Child Care Network and membership.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee: under copyright.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
nwodcn_91may
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada -Ontario- Thunder Bay
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/5146c4cd09eff523b09fd4a928ed7e9e.pdf
ba8b0b73122c7e8bc6dbe2286f56f35f
PDF Text
Text
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO REGIONAL
CHILD CARE COMMITTEE
NEWSLETTER
N.W.O.R.C.C.C. NEWS
NAME CHANGE
In order to better reflect the
range of child care services
offered in the Northwest, we
have changed our name from the
Nort h western Ontario Regional
Day Care Committee to the
North~estern Ontario Regional
Child Care Committee.
NEW ADDRESS !!!
The N.W.O.R.C.C.C. has moved
to a new site. We are now
located at 4A South Court St. ,
office #7, in the Ruttan
Building across from Eatons.
Our mailing address:
P.O. Box 24037
70 N. Court St.
Thunder Bay, ON P7A 8A9
We are pleased to be in a
larger, brighter space. Our
phone and fax are now in fine
working order. We apologize to
those of you who had a
difficult time trying to reach
us this winter. Please give us
a call and let us know what's
happening in your area. The
staff are now working parttime hours so if we are not in
the office, please leave a
message and we will get back
to you.
Phone: 345-8803
Fax:345-8803
N.W.O.R.C.C.C. FALL FORUMS
The N.W.O.R.C.C.C. held public
forums in the fall of 1994.
The forums took place in
Marathon on Oct. 1st and then
again in Kenora on Oct. 29th.
The theme for the 1994
Regional Forums was
"Supporting the Changing Needs
of Families in Northwestern
Ontario". The purpose of each
forum was to facilitate
regional discussions with
providers, parents and
advocates, encouraging them to
voice their concerns on child
care issues in Northwestern
Ontario.
It was apparent from the
discussions that old attitudes
and values regarding the
family, women and the
workplace and child care still
exist in Northwestern Ontario.
In order to change these
attitudes participants saw a
need for more public education
to help increase the number of
child care advocates in
Northwestern Ontario.
("strength in numbers").
Education on child care issues
can empower individuals to
influence and participate in
the child care decisions that
can effect their lives and
those of their children.
Participants then worked on
developing an "action plan" to
address these needs. They
realized that they could help
bring about positive change by
talking to their family,
friends, co-workers etc.,
about current child care
issues. In this process they
are helping to mobilize
individuals to influence and
�be a part of child care
decisions in Ontario.
If you are interested in
finding out more about the
results of the Forum, contact
Barbara or Joanne at the
N.W.O.R.C.C.C. office (3458803) to receive a copy of the
Forum report.
N.W.O.R.D.C.C. Community
Outreach
One of the N.W.O.R.C.C.C. 's
goals for the 1995 year is to
conduct community outreach in
Northwestern Ontario. We have
formed a working committee
composed of Council members
and an Outreach Co-ordinator.
This committee will design a
strategy for outreach to
educate individuals and
mobilize them on child care
issues. The Outreach Committee
will identify methods needed
to achieve this goal, i.e. a
video on child care in the
North.
The Royal Commission On
Lea1ning
The Royal Commission on
Learning is recommending that
school boards provide both
half and full day Early
Childhood Education programs
for all three to five year
olds. This program would be
operating under the Ministry
of Education and would expand
on the current Junior and
senior kindergarten to cover a
whole day. It co-ordinates
child care and educational
services. It is designed to
help eliminate the problem of
the divided day for children
in kindergarten, who often
have two to four different
care givers a day, creating a
"seamless" day for children
and their parents. The program
is optional, parents do not
have to enrol their children.
There would be no charge for
the program during the regular
school day from 9am to 3:30
pm. Fees would be charged for
those needing extended day
care from 7-9 am and 3:30-6
pm. Child care subsidies would
still be available for those
who are eligible.
Pilot Projects involving 4 - 5
year olds will begin in
Ontario in the Fall of 1995.
Children will be taught by a
combination of E.C.E. 's,
certified teachers and
teaching assistants. The
projects will last five years
and will include an ongoing
evaluation during that period.
The Ministry of Education and
Training is inviting school
boards to apply for the pilot
projects this spring.
While the NWORDCC council
applauds any steps towards
universal. publicly funded
Early childhood Education, we
also have a number of concerns
regarding the Royal
Commissions recommendations.
They include the following:
. That all children would be
respected for their individual
development
. The programs provide a
publicly funded seamless day
for children
. Both parents and educators
must work together as a team
to insure the quality of the
programs.
. Parents would have to be
art of the pilot projects
evaluation process
. That the ratios would not
exceed the maximum of 1/12.
. The governing body of these
programs include parents,
providers and advocates
. No existing community bodies
such as Day Cares disappear
�. Clearly written job
descriptions would exist for
the successful integration of
E.C.E. 'sand teachers .
. Tenure security for policy
around maintaining existing
child care space in schools
If you have any concerns
around the Royal Commissions'
recommendations, The NWORCCC
would like to hear them. Our
FAX# is 345-8803.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee Newsletter
Subject
The topic of the resource
Organizations
Description
An account of the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee Newsletter. Includes information about the name change from Northwestern Ontario Regional Day Care Committee to Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee with information of new address; 1994 Regional Forums in Marathon and Kenora; Outreach Committee; Royal Commission on Learning.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1994
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Child Care Committee: under copyright.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
nworcccn_94_
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
Canada - Ontario - Marathon
Canada - Ontario - Kenora
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/c59885f14fbc442819ee528b66e0bc5c.pdf
b01fd833f764b73ab53d9bafe3c970b7
PDF Text
Text
·Narth\Nestern Ontario Day Care
News
May 1988
NWO DAY CARE NEWS is a forum for
the sharing of information between
day care groups throughout the
region,
as well as providing
information about what's happening
on the federal and provincial
scenes,
both
in
terms
of
governmental policy/legislation and
advocacy groups' activities.
We hope that this newsletter will
combat some of the isolation that
day care workers and advocates feel
and that through the sharing of
resources, ideas and action plans,
we can develop strategies to ensure
the growth and strengthening of
quality day care in our region.
We welcome submissions to this
newsletter from every day care
centre and committee throughout
Northwestern Ontario.
Please send
art~cles, news clippings, letters,
etc. to Box 144, Thunder Bay,
Ontario P7C 4V5
N.W.O.R.D.C.C.
Membership
Structure
out NWORDCC work.
Your 1988
Council members are:
(*denotes
executive)
Leila Daciw (Thunder
Bay, F), Sharon Hart (Thunder Bay,
F) Heather Hawkes (Thunder Bay P),
Fiona Karlstedt* (Thunder Bay, P),
Phyllis Kellar (Fort Frances),
Veronica Kreidl (Marathon), Wilma
Molinaro (Red Rock), Paula Nelligan
(Thunder Bay,
F), Anita Price
(Thunder Bay, P), Brenda Rikkonen*
(Thunder Bay F), Holly Rupert* (Red
Lake), Diane Sarrazin (Geraldton),
Eva Shields
(Atikokan),
Donna
Wasykowski* (Fort Frances), Marilyn
Wells
(Sioux Lookout),
Janet
Wilkinson (Sioux Lookout).
The
Forum
also
approved a
membership structure and fees.
Membership categories are:
Category A:
Municipal Councils/Indian Band
Council; Day Care Centres;
Professional Organizations;
Regional Associations; Labour
Unions.
Fee: $50.00
and
The growth and maturation of the
Northwestern Ontario Regional Day
Care Committee prompted your
Steering Committee to recommend a
more formal structure for our
organization, which was adopted at
the Regional Forum in February.
A
COUNCIL of fifteen representatives
(three
from
each provincial
political constituency) will direct
the activities of the organization
and will meet (at least) three
times per year.
An EXECUTIVE of
five
(one from ·each political
constituency) will meet as required
between Council meetings to carry
Category B:
Parent Groups, Voluntary Community Organizations
Fee: $25.00
Category C:
Individuals.
Fee: $5.00
A membership Committee has been
iormed, and a membership campaign
will be organized.
Details about
how YQ.\!. can help with the
membership campaign will be sent to
you at a later date.
CONTINUED ...
�•
-2Your membership Committee is
looking for a logo to appropriately
represent the NWORDCC.
Your ideas
(designs)
would be welcomed.
... please send them to Veronica
Kreidl, Box 998, Marathon.
The first meeting of your new
Council was held March 19 and an
extensive agenda was productively
covered.
Issues dealt with
included direct grants, the Funding
Advisory Committee, federal policy,
day care workers qualifications and
(our)
budget.
Priorities
established for 1988/89 are (1)
weighting factor;
(2)
Funding
Advisory Committee;
and
(3)
membership campaign.
REGIONAL NEWS
GERALDTON
Submitted by Diane Sarrazin
Teachers and children have been
busy visiting the community.
Tour
of Dane ff' s Food Market, tour of
the Royal Bank, spring walk looking
for pussy willows, tour of the fire
station,
and visit from the
ambulance.
We are looking forward
to
visiting
our
local
OPP
detachment and MNR fire base in the
near future.
During May we hosted a Mother's Day
Tea and eighth Family Night Supper.
Due to recent government grants
allocated to the centre and the
Rural Resource Program we have
purchased a computer which we hope
will be set up soon with our school
age children.
RED ROCK
Submitted by Wilma Molinaro
On Sunday April 24, 1988, Red Rock
Day Care Centre hosted an "Open
House" for the public to come and
see the new Centre.
The Day Care
is located in the basement of the
new library expansion and has just
been newly-renovated.
Over 100 people _ attended the Open
House and M. P. Ernie Epp and Mrs.
Epp drove in from Thunder Bay to
see the new facility.
Ruth Wells,
Program Supervisor from the
Ministry of Community and Social
Services and her son Andrew also
attended.
The Day Care has children attending
since May 2nd and the Centre can
accommodate 2 o children.
Anyone
wishing to see our new centre is
more than welcome to come by. Our
phone number is 886-2568.
The Official Opening ceremonies for
the centre will be held June 7th.
We continue to have a long waiting
list especially for the children
ranging from 4-6 years of age.
FORT FRANCES
Submitted by Phyllis Kellar
The Fort Frances Day Care and Child
Development Centre is still full
with a long waiting list.
Town Council has made a decision
about the direct grant and has
decided that this money will be
paid in 1988 as a direct ea·rned
bonus payment, for the Day Care
Supervisor,- Teachers, Cook and
substitute staff.
CONTINUED
�-3-
The Day Care staff enjoyed taking
part in the picture book campaign
and many thanks for the photo copy
of our contribution to the picture
book.
We had a
successful
Mother's Day Luncheon at the
Centre.
The children made cards,
gifts and corsages for their moms
and made dinner for them which they
all enjoyed.
It was a successful
event with 71 in attendance.
MARATHON
Submitted by Veronica Kreidl
Things are going well here at the
centre.
We received a grant from
the Trillium Foundation
for
$12,600.
The money will be spent
on toys, equipment, supplies and on
staff development.
We have also received the direct ·
grant from COMSOC. • This money will
be used to increase staff salaries
which everybody is thrilled about.
ineffective and do nothing for
child care.
We re-iterated our
position that quality child care
will only be provided by the
expansion of the non-profit sector,
and expressed concern with the
government's unprecedented support
to commercial day care operations.
We
pointed
out
that
the
representations by Northwestern
Ontario day care people to the
Special Committee on Child Care had
been ignored,
and the federal
strategy does not address our
recommendations
for
a
comprehensive, high-quality, nonprofit child care system.
We recommended that the proposed
strategy be abandoned and be
replaced by a national strategy
with clear objectives and criteria
that will ensure that all Canadian
families have equal access to
licensed child care services, and
that the federal government provide
adequate financial resources to the
provinces to ensure a comprehensive
child care system is developed.
We presently have 98 children in
total registered in the Marathon
Day Care program. This is great to
see.
Copies of our position paper are
available.· .. just write us at Box
144, Thunder Bay, P7C 4V5.
FEDERAL POLICY
The Federal child care policy must
be stopped.
Contact your MP and
MPP today to express your concern.
In
response
to the
federal
government's National Strategy on
Child Care,
the Northwestern
Ontario Regional Day Care Committee
prepared a position paper which was
sent to Prime Minister Mulroney,
Health & Welfare Minister Jake Epp,
opposition critics,
and all
Northwestern Ontario MPs and MPPs.
The focus of our paper was that the
proposed strategy was regressive;
the new Child Care Act would have
the effect of restricting
rather
than expanding child care spaces;
that
tax measures will be
The Tory way ... No Way'
�.
-4DIRECT OPERATING GRANT
The long-awaited Direct Operating
Grant
has
been
implemented
(retroactive to January 1, 1988) by
the Ministry of Community and
Social Services.
For many years,
the Northwestern Ontario Regional
Day Care Committee, (and others)
have advocated for the direct
grant, and we welcome the news that
the grant is "in place".
The
implementation of the grant is,
however, not without its problems,
and the impact of the direct grant
must-be monitored.
The first priority for the use of
the direct grant is to increase
existing staff salaries and/or
benefits and to increase payments
to (PHDC) providers.
However, the
Ministry's guidelines provide for
"special circumstances" whereby a
municipality/Board of Directors
may make application for an
exemption, and use the grant for
other purposes
(e.g.
reducing
transitional subsidy).
It
is unfortunate that the
guidelines
have
provided
"exceptions", as this is leading to
considerable inconsistency in the
use of the funds across the
province.
What should have been a
tremendous morale booster for all
day care workers is, for some,
having the opposite effect, and may
result in further inequities.
We are pleased to note _ that many
Northwestern Ontario centres have
applied the direct grant to wages
and benefits.
But it is very
discouraging to learn that several
centres are not intending to use
the grant for this purpose.
Whether or not the direct grant
works well is dependent on the
goodwill of the municipality/Board
of Directors (and in some cases the
union). Serious inconsistencies in
'
the implementation of the direct
grant can only augment the problems
of our troubled child care system.
WE STRONGLY URGE YOU TO MONITOR THE
SITUATION
AND
KEEP
THE
N.W.O.R.D.C.C. INFORMED OF THE WAY
THE DIRECT OPERATING GRANT IS BEING
USED IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
Your
information is essential for the
NWORDCC to be able to make
recommendations to the Ministry to
improve the process.
The
Ministry's
guidelines
concerning the grant are outlined
in a booklet entitled Child Care
Direct Operating Grants, Guidelines
and Procedures: Non-Profit Sector.
Your
municipality/Board
of
Directors should have received this
booklet.
Or obtain a copy by
contacting your Area COMSOC office.
Many people have expressed interest
in learning the "formula" for
direct grant
funding.
The
following excerpt from the Ontario
Coalition for Better Child care
newsletter provides an example of
the funding formula.
What is "The Formula" ror Calculation or
The Direct Operating Grant?
Complete details about the funding formulae can be obtained from the
Guidelines, but it might be of interest to indicate how the formula works with a
practical example. Essentially, the formula weights factors of age, h9urs of
operation, and months of service, with a point system, the result of which is
then multiplied by a dollar value IO determine the annual (or quarterly) granL
(Operating Capacity X Age Weightings) X Months Open
= Total Points
On an annual basis, a centre with an enrollment of 10 infant, 15 toddler and
32 pre-school children which operated from 7:00 a.m. until 6:00 p.m. for
twelve months of the year could expect to receive:
For Infants:
oo Infants x 36 Points} x 12 months
=
4,320 POINTS
l
For Toddlers:
CJ5 Toddlers X 24 Points) X !2 months
=
4,320 POINTS
=
5,760 POINTS
l
For Pre-school
(32 Pre-school X !5 Pojnts) X 12 months
l
The point value allowed to this centre totals:
14,400 POINTS
In 1988, each point is valued at S4.12 for the year. As a result, in this
example, the centre would receive a direct grant, divided inro quarterly
payments of $14,832. and IOtalling $59,328 for the year.
�-5Take pride that your advocacy has
helped in making direct grants a
reality, but realize that continued
advocacy will be required to
develop the comprehensive and
adequately funded child care system
we deserve.
the major Canadian child care
organization was an object lesson
for
all
who
attended
the
Conference. The need for increased
political action by all day care
advocates is very clear,
and
delegates left the lobby determined
to redouble their efforts to
achieve appropriate day care
policy.
C.D.C.A.A. CONFERENCE
Rejection
of
the
federal
government's "National Strategy on
Child Care" was the unifying force
that dominated the second National
Child care Conference held in
Ottawa in April.
Sponsored by the
Canadian
Day
Care Advocacy
Association the Conference brought
together over 500 delegates from
across Canada,
including six
Northwestern
Ontario
representations. Day care workers,
parents, administrators, educators,
advocates from Newfoundland to the
Yukon were united
in their
opposition to the federal strategy
and determined to take all possible
action to reverse this policy.
The federal government's lack of
concern
for
child care was
evidenced by the Prime Minister's
and senior cabinet members failure
to
accept
the
C.D.C.A.A.'s
invitation to attend the Conference
to receive the "Picture Book" which
had been compiled by day care
groups across the country (see
article on our contribution to
Picture Book Campaign page 7).
It
was further evidenced when no
senior government member attended
the lobby.
The Conservative
backbenchers who did attend the
lobby were, however, given a very
clear message, as delegate after
delegate rose to explain why the
federal policy failed to meet their
community's need.
The unwillingness
of
senior
Conservative members to meet with
While the federal strategy was the
key issue for all attending this
well
organized
conference,
delegates also participated in a
series of informative workshops,
and developed new networks that
will strengthen our community work.
FREE TRADE FORUM
The Threat to Non-profit Child Care
in Canada
(reprinted from the Toronto star,
April 21, 1988)
This fall,
while Canadian and
American trade negotiators hammered
out final details of the free trade
agreement, child care advocates
fearfully speculated· about the
future of child care in Canada.
It was rumoured that new federal
proposals would flow funds to
commercial child care businesses,
encouraging American companies to
cross the border to operate in this
country and ending our ability to
create our own high quality child
care system.
Speculation that the
free trade agreement would include
human services as tradeable i terns
further fueled these concerns.
The details of both the free trade
deal and the federal child care
strategy are now public.
The
potential
effects
of • the
combination are alarming.
�-6-
U.S. Child Care Policy
Child care policy in the United
States is more poorly developed
than
that
of
any
of
the
industrialized
(and many nonindustrialized) countries; indeed,
the United States even lacks a
national maternity leave policy.
An effort to establish a national
child care policy failed with
former President Richard Nixon's
veto of a major bill in 1971, and
an attempt to upgrade federal child
care standards was derailed in the
late 1970s. There is no provision
for funding child care services per
se and in President Ronald Reagan's
era,
subsidies for low income
children have become almost
impossible to secure.
In the absence of a national policy
and public fund, child care in
America is viewed as a commodity
sold in the marketplace.
The gap
is partly filled by businesses that
primarily aim at the middle class
market.
Increasingly, these are
operated by a few multi-million
dollar
corporations
with
substantial venture capital and the
capacity to expand into new market.
Currently, our federal government
imposes
no
barrier
to the
establishment of American child
care businesses in Canada nor to
the subsidization of families using
these services under the social
assistance provisions of the Canada
Assistance Plan.
Some provincial
governments have established their
own
criteria.
Manitoba,
Saskatchewan,
Quebec and Nova
Scotia have limited the growth or
support of commercial services;
other,
such as Alberta,
have
encouraged and heavily subsidized
commercial operations.
The recently announced federal
proposals
set
a
dangerous
precedent.
For the first time,
provinces may use federal funds to
fund businesses directly and
provide subsidies in commercial
programs more easily.
Child care
advocates fear that this will act
as an incentive to American
companies, with their large pools
of capital, to locate in Canada.
Government Denials
Throughout the fall,
Barbara
McDougall, Minister Reponsible for
Women's
Issues,
and Welfare
Minister, Jake Epp, said that child
care had been explicitly excluded
from the free trade agreement.
Indeed, it is not listed as a
tradeable service in the provisions
of the trade agreement that
specifically deal with services.
Interpretations of other portions
of the agreement, however, suggest
that it could be impossible for a
provincial government to deny U.S.
entrepreneurs access to public
funding for child care in Canada.
Further, the agreement could make
it impossible for a government to
deny American companies funds
available to other child care
programs,
even capital funds.
Trade observers believe it likely
that one section, Clause 2011 could
give rise to a pressure point
against the development of a nonprofit child care system.
The impact of the free trade
agreement on the development of a
child care system in Canada is a
matter of interpretation and
conjecture., There are, however,
red flags that ind:1.cate danger, and
we would be well-advised to heed
them. For Canada, child care, like
health care, education and other
human services, should not be a
trading matter-free or otherwise.
Martha Friendly
Child Care Resource & Research Unit
University of Toronto
�(
Modern
Living
.l
Childcare picturebook makes way to city
-7-
{the <£hroniclc-3fournal
•
_
By JO-ANS MIHALICH
Chronicle-Journal Staff
_!aturday, April 9, 1988
:· -·- \·. ~-..., t
-, . . ·
••
21
I
: . ~/.
.
The Northwestern Ontario Region'arDay Care Committee and the
Thunder Bay Advocates for Quality
Child Care will be 'throwing the
book' at Ottawa this month to denounce the government's national
strategy on child care.
The two groups are taking part in
a picture book campaign to highlight their opposition to the child
care plan. Co-sponsored by the National Action Committee on the Status of Women and the Daycare Advocacy Association, the campaign
provides an opportunity for the public to demonstrate support for the
development of a comprehensive
child care system. '
•
At a press conference Thursday
night at the constituency office of
MP Ernie Epp CNOP-Thunder BayNipigonl, committee council member Anita Price unveiled the large •
binder-type book. The picturebook
- to be on display in Ottawa April 22
- has been moving across Canada
MPs ERNIE EPP AND IAIN ANGUS WITH ANITA PRICE, RIGHT
gathering pictures and messages
... display giant photo album travelling across Canada
along its way.
Price says Prime Minister Brian
ularly for. infant care, schocl-a~
government's national strategy on
Mulroney has been invited to attend
tion or the financial resom:ces to
programs, emergency care an
child care. prepared by the N.W.O.
the opening of the exhibit and will
achieve a comprehensive child care
services for shift-working familie
system.
Regional Day Care Committee.
receive their message that the Tory
she said. As well. many comm,
She said during the federal study
child care strategy will impede the
The child care strategy's provinities are without any child ca1
development of child care in Canada
sion for spaces and the tax measures
by the special committee on child
services and require a range of pr,
and should be withdrawn.
are of major concern to both groups.
care. many N.W.O. people made
grams.
•
''The federal government needs to
With a demonstrated need for one
presentations in Dryden and Thun''The needs of N.W.O. can be m1
know how parents. early childhood
million spaces this yeitr, PriC-' says
der Bay. N.W.O. presenters consisby a significant infusion of gover1
the proposed 200,000 new spaces
educators and concerned citizens
tently advocated for a comprehenment spending - the spending in tt
feel about the national strategy on
over seven years is "clearly inadesive. high quality, non-profit child
form of direct operating and c:ipit,
child care,·· said Price, in her adquate.''
_ care system.
grants to non-profit day care organ
dress.
.
N.W.O, reps did not recommend
•·our recommendations to the spe.zations."
In presenting Epp and MP Iain
tax measures. Tax deductions will
cial committee stressed our desire
Referring to the national chi!
Angus <NOP-Thunder Bay-Atikodo nothing to create new day care
_ for the federal_government to give
care strategy, Angus said the Torie
kan I with a copy of the N.W.O. conspaces. Price argues that tax credits
leadership and support to the prov"blew it."
''do not address the issue of quality
tribution to the book, Price said.
inces and territories with adequate
The politician said the' govern
"We as your constituents, call upon
care and do not make care more affinancial resources to provide the
ment didn't establish national objec
you to take action and see that the
fordable or available."
comprehensive, high quality, nonlives in which federal money woul<
national child care policy be re-eval''Another issue we felt was not
profit system that we need."
uated."
properly addressed is the support of
Presenters also stressed quality
The N.W.O. contribution includes
the commercial sector. We are ap- - be available for child care spaces
care and the need for workers to be
snapshots of interviews with those in
palled by the unprecedented support ( The government should have ere
trained in early childhood education
ated a fixed number of spaces ai
the day care industry and with early
to commercial day care operations
as well as the issue of adequate
well as placed funding at an ad
childhood educaticn students of Conthat the strategy implies."
wages. Price feels that the N.W.0.
equate level "that'makes it accessi
federation College.
Within communities currently oprepresentations were ignored !:>y the
ble regardless of income."
Price also presented Epp and Anerating programs, the need for exspecial.committee., She says the
In the 1984 election, Epp said thE
gus with a brief in response to the • strategy does not provide the direcpansion is apparent, most particNOP "pressed hard" to institute ,
national child care program and hi:
govern~ent w!ll continue the figh·
for quality child care. Angus saic
day care very well could be a "na
tional platform" for the NOP in thE
next federal election.
"We see it as the social issue oJ
our time," Epp said.
The picture bo.ok campaign
launched in Toronto on Feb. 'r/ and
has since travelled to Newfoundland
and Laf>rador, Nova Scotia New
Brunswick, North York, H~arst,
Sault Ste. Marie and Thunder' Bay.
The
book's next destination is Sar- ! - ....: ..
L
-
I'! . . - I
•
•
,...., •
�·--~-S~ .sJ.
)-\j \L\j\i~
-8-
Non-profit •
day-care does
the best job
study shows
By Leslie Fruman Toronto Star
Children in non-profit centres in
Metro get better day care than
those in centres run for profit, a
government study has found.
The. study found that commer·
cial centres violate the Ontario
Day Nurseries Act and fail to meet
minimum standards far mor1r
often than non-profit centres.
,
"I think it's very clear that in
major issues, commercially operat•
ed centres aren't operated as well,"
study author Sharon West said.
"You could say they're not as·
good," said West, who was hired,by
the Ministry of Community and So- .
cfal Services for the review. :, ., .:,
.. ·The study, done at The Star's re-:
quest, found that from March;.:
1987, to February, 1988:
• .::
Almost 54 per cent of com- ••
mercial centres failed to hav~
enough qualified staff as required
by the act, compared to 15 pet
. cent of parent- or community-run
. non-profit centres. F.ive dlffeuqt
kinds of non-profit centres were 1n;
eluded In the study.
• .•~ •. •
□ Commercial centres took long•
See NON-PROFTr/page AlO
a
Non-profit centres do best in study
Continued from page Al
er than other centres to correct
staffing problems.
Ninety-rive per cent of nonprofit centres with parent or community boards solved staff short·
ages within six months, compared
lo 77 per cent of commercial
centres. In fact, 11 per cent of
commercial centres still had staff
shortages after 10 months.
□ Parents at commercial
centres complained more than
twice as often as p.1rents at other
centres about the way they were
run. The study found 33 per centof.
commercial centres had complaints lodged against them, compared to 13 per cent of non-profit
centres.
•Of 133 complaints iodgec) wfth
the' province,
99 ot them
were
.
'
..
about commercial centres. Al- centres were each visited 3.2
though commercial centres repre- times.
sent only 42 per of the centres
'i>rovam adivsers spent more
studied, they received 74 per cent of their time at commercially
of the complaints.
operated centres than non-profit
□ Commercial centres more parent/community board operatoften than non-profit centres had ed centres, and most of this time
restricted licences because of act was for quality-control reasons,"
violations. While 21 per cent. of the i:eport ..ays.
commercial operators had shdrt.·
The findings come on the heels of
term licences, only 6.8 per cent of- announcements by ·Ottawa and
non-profit community-run centres Queen's Park that commercial
had the same type of restricted li- ,. centres will receive government
cence.
· •• · • ·• ~ _; aid for the first time.
□ Commercial centres were:· · Though the study shows com·
visited. mare often by. the minis- . mercial centres have the worst·
try's program advisers because of record, it also reveals that not all
problems or complaints than any ' non-profit centres are the same.
other type of centre.
•
It shows that non-profit centres
The study shows commercial run by churches or by boards that
centres were each visited an av.er-. -~ don't include parents don't meet
age of 4.7 times. while non-profit · \tthe requiremeqts as often as those
parent or comp_1unlty 6oard ~ereparents-!iave a say.
.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News, May 1988
Subject
The topic of the resource
Organizations
Description
An account of the resource
Northwestern Ontario Day Care News May 1988. Includes information about Northwestern Ontario Regional Day Care Committee structure and membership; day care news for Red Rock, Geraldton, Fort Frances, and Marathon; NWO position paper to the federal government's National Strategy on Child Care; Direct Operating Grant; Canadian Day Care Advisory Association Conference; Free Trade Forum and the U.S. Child Care policy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Day Care Committee
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1988-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Northwestern Ontario Regional Day Care Committee: under copyright.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
nwodcn_88may
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
Canada - Ontario - Red Rock
Canada - Ontario - Geraldton
Canada - Ontario - Fort Frances
Canada - Ontario - Marathon
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/a0e7b1e2dff347bc538fe8d4bf7c49a7.pdf
c85b4118453383bd0d334dd42bcaa4e6
PDF Text
Text
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Timber Operators' Association Map
Subject
The topic of the resource
Forest Products Industry
Description
An account of the resource
Map of Northwestern Ontario with the location of lumber camps, saw mills, pulp or paper mills, and wood processing plants indicated. Likely mid-1950s. Part of Northwestern Ontario Development Association fonds.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Timber Operators' Association
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
1950s
forest industry
lumber camps
Map
Northwestern Ontario
paper mills
saw mills
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/410c47f63b3093a416dc18cf4dcb14e3.mp3
50d9889c7e2c2e2d5594d9fac554b494
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/0bf9bda3bc2e6ca1787dcf4464679786.mp3
b91e4e5becfe39eff6d039225d2e78a3
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/5da075abefd2ebfa02058a1a555de252.pdf
cbabafa68b879647067d3c3b15adc946
PDF Text
Text
T
/
j
HERSTORY PROJECT
Mrs. Peltier interviewed by Helen Lovekin
-
Q.
~hat year were you born?
A.
1896.
Q.
How long have you lived here in Atikokan?
A.
Since
Q.
When did you move up to Northern Ontario?
A.
In
1923.
1923. We went to Keshabowieand there were 13 houses at that time including
the school, the Post Office the store, everything.
Q.
What brought you into Northern Ontario?
A.
Work - we couldn't be were we had no work.
You see we were close to Winnipeg
and it was the time of the Depression and a man that comes from Montreal and
goes and settles in Saskatchewan with crop failure year after year will sell
it.
Q.
Did he work on the railway?
A.
Yes, there is where he started when we moved close to Winnipeg, he was laid
off in the fall because he was a new employee.
All winter long we had no-
thing to eat - just what I could squeeze so hard in the summer time, we just
barely lived.
Q.
So you grew things in a garden?
A.
Of course, we had to, we had to do something.
All the berries we could get
at least for at Christmas time - that was the least we had to have.
With
time and application, each time there was an opening at some place on the
CN, he kept applying until he got the job at Kashabowie.
Q.
How did you feel about leaving Montreal?
A.
I didn't live in Montreal, my husband was from Montreal.
I think it must have
been a hard time for him too.
Q.
Are you from Quebec or ... ?
A.
No, I am from Manitoba.
Q.
How did you feel about the change?
A.
I was glad as long as I got something to eat and feed my children with.
There
was not much of a future but at least we knew we would have something to eat
all year round.
When a man worked frcrn April to October and then he is laid
�off and not a dollar is coming in.
"' No matter how careful you are you have
to have a few clothes for the children, you have got to get a pair of
shoes now and then - it was no life.
I would have gone anywhere, anyplace
as long as we were earning our daily bread and I didn ' t believe in going
"on the town" and I was too proud to go and ask for help like that, so it
was rough.
Q.
For the sake of being independant, I was willing to go anywhere.
There was nothing I wouldn't do to better myself. q
When you came to Kashabowie you said there were 13 buildings - how many children did you have with you at that time?
A.
Three, I went over there with a three week old baby.
The other two were
tugging at my skirt, and a bag of diapers and a few cookies for them because I had 12 hours of train ride.
I never forget when I arrive over there
my heart went down so low.
Q.
A.
Why?
r
\'1\ .Q..'() l
•
Mainly becaaee) they don't trust us too much sometimes.
.. 1J IYI
1,
He told me about a
nice, white little cottage that I was going to go to, well, I was so happy
and I looked forward to that white cottage.
It was on a hill alright, but
it was an old cutter ' s shack only partly whitewashed..
Q.
When your husband was working in Kashabowie what sort of things did you do?
A.
Entertainment, you mean?
Q.
Yes.
We stayed there four years and the only thing that we could do was at Christ-
A.
mas time when they had some kind of Christmas Concert~y the children who
were going to school, in fact - e ¼:c
was one of the pupils, she did her
first year, Outside of that, they were all Finlanders and there were maybe two or three families that 1,eren 't - two Francais and the others must
have been English.
those
Finnish
I'm telling you it was lonely and they would invite us
women, and they were very nice and very entertaining with
their baking, ver-J generous.
But they all speak their language and us, we
were just sitting there like a bump on a log.
Actually it was boring for
us but for the sake of seeing somebody - you get to a point in places like
that - I guess you go backwards instead of forwards.
You think more of your
problems than of something brighter.
Q.
Uhen you were with these women, and although it wa-s boring because they didn't
speak any English, was it more for the sake of being with the company of
women?
�3
A.
Yes, it Has for company's sake.
You
Even if it was boring, it was still something.
were g etting dressed, you took time to get dressed, put on the best dress
you owned, fix your hair, you made your girls as pretty as little dolls and
it was something to do apart from cooking the cheapest way and' scrubbing
those bare floors and carrying water, like I did by the pailful.
pail up the hill.
Pail after
It was a change that was really helpful al though it was
boring to sit there and not know what was being talked about.
Then every-
body lmitted in their own way - the Finlanders don't hold the needles like
we do and do they ever go fast and the beautiful knitting.
They were won-
derful women and wonderful workers with the exception of the language problem.
Q.
Did you have more children while you stayed at Kashabowie?
A.
Yes, I had two more and each time I moved back home to have them.
Q.
You never had them in a hospital?
A.
Never.
Q.
Who helped you with the children?
A.
A neighbor - there was always an old neighbor, somebody older than I was,
Who helped you as a midwife?
Everybody did it, I helped you today and tomorrow you helped me.
it myself too after I was older.
I did
Not for money, at no time did we take money.
And then the entertainment - I've seen at times if somebody who could sing
came, it was a singing party.
Q.
A.
lhy did you come to Atikokan?
1
For a better living again.
From Kashabowie, of course my husbaJ1d kept bidding
for the section foreman's job and then we went to
------- for
year but he couldn't handle the work so we got transferred to Emo.
one
I wanted
school by that time for the children.
Q.
They were old eno,ue;h to go to school?
A.
He had two of school age and then I wanted school because I didn't have all
the schooling I lrnuld have liked to have and I didn't want my children to
be in the same boat.
So we went to Erno and we stayed there 28 years so the
children all got their education there and of course in Fort Frances soon
as they went into other courses.
I came here after my husband retired, you
have 8 children and small ch~cks all the time, in fact I always tried to
earn money myself outside to make up. All he had was a $40 pension per month
and we couldn't pay ta-xes, we cou:1dn't pay fuel, we couldn't pay hydro, we
couldn't eat/and the work over there was not good enough for me.
�Q.
What were these jobs?
A.
No, in the hospital.
Cooking in camps?
Anyway I decided we should come here and I '11 get a house
and I'll keep bo\ders because
mines were still in full swing.
of the mines - this was 22 years ago and the
That is w-J:nt I did, I caine here, and I
bought a house for 9 thousand dollars and I had almost 2 thousand dollars of
furniture because I had to have a large freezer and leaving a place where I
had no electric appliances, I caine here and I needed those things.
In seven
years, I was clear - I didn't owe a dollar to nobody.
Q.
For both tmms, Erno and Atikokan, when you moved to Emo, was it already an
established toim?
A.
Yes, but it wasssmall, about 700 I think.
Q.
Not, like Kashabowie.
A.
No, at least there was a four room public school and there was a two room
high school and there were three churches.
There was a better future for
my children and I wanted my children to have better than what I had.
Q.
In again,- Atikokari, what was it like 22 years ago?
A.
Not too many sidewalks.
Q.
Was it like a hole punched in the bush?
A.
Not, really, it was better than Emo.
Better grocery stores, better schools
but then I didn't need those things then because my children were all gone,
in fact, my twins had just finished their courses.
self.
So I was really for my-
I had three grandsons that were that age besides my own.
Then they
were teenagers so they were not small as to tie me dmm, so I was free to )
work.
Q.
You are very strong about the idea of improving your life for your chttdren,
from the interview from Mrs. Uebber she has mentioned that you are deeply
involved with the Catholic Church?
Was that a religious conviction, a pers-
onal convic:tion to work for your children?
My parents were Catholics and I was brought up a Catholic.
But there was
always something - I don't know - not that I think it is the wrong religion,
but some of their rules to me were man-made rules uhich I dirln 't agree with.
I'll take from the Bible, I'll accept it but from another man, it'sllike I
read from some of today's books. Sure it is a beautiful story but it is still
a man's stOT'IJ.
There was aCatholic church over there but they had a priest
only sometimes and then sma.11 group of people like that who are poor, no
matter hou honest you are, you are always the little one.
There were always
the ones better off who we had to look up to and I resented that very much.
Myself, I believe in equal rights.
�5
Q.
Do you believe equal rights for not only classes but from the standpoint of
A.
men and women?
Yes, and no. I like to be independant from men, I'll admit - I don't like
men to boss me around.
They're not going to tell me what to do - I know
what I have to do and I'll do it.
And if I know I can't do something, I'll
say I can't do it or I don't care to do it.
I don't like to ~e pushed around.
I think I am a queer woman sometimes, but ... I have been fortunate and I am
at this time, one of the most fortunate senior women that is living I am sure.
Q.
A.
Why? How do you see yourself fortunate?
I look at all of the wonderful things there are in this world. I have the
nicest friends and it is not because they are poor women like me - as far
as money is concerned they are far better off than I am.
They have the ed-
Q.
ucation that I don't have. I never learned English at school myself.
Did you find it a problem when you moved to Manitoba, not speaking English?
A.
I was born in Manitoba and I was raised on a bush farm.
enjoyed it but I don't think my mother liked it too much.
money was as scarce as it has been for us now and then.
Of course, us kids
In those days
We were fortunate
that my mother was a school teacher, so she taught school there.
Not through
the government like they do today, she did it for the sake of the children
and she liked to help out.
That is how come we got out French but we didn't
have English - she knew English but those Frenchmen - you had to be so French
and it is drilled into us to be French and we are.
-
When I left home to go
and work I found it difficult and I was lonesome and I was amongst Englishspeaking people, but I was determined to work and to make my living.
Q.
Did you encounter discrimination in your wages or in your positions because
you were a woman?
A.
I don't think so.
Q.
A.
For instance, the differences in paychecks?
Oh, yes.
Q.
Was it a great deal or was it just a little bit?
A.
It was not that much - of course with the work I was doing, I was not a
professional and I was just cooking.
a man does.
Maybe us women get away with more than
Q.
What do we get away with?
A.
Let's say a crew of men that you are cooking for will expect more from the
man than they woul d expect from the woman.
�In time they might cat er to us and to take too, to what the cook will say.
Q,
A.
Q.
A.
That is important in a bu;3h camp,ci
It was not in a bush camp, I never cooked in a bush camp, just in the hospital
and the railroad.
How did you feel after p~tting so much of this tremendous energy into giving
the children the best that you could possibly give? After they erew up,
how did you feel when they were gone?
I was happy. They turned out to be good women, every one of them.
They are
all living, I got my eight girls and they are all living, and they all finished
something and they are all able to keep themselves above board and better
off tha.n I ever was. I am alright now, I have got plenty to eat and I don't
have to worry, I don't have a palace but I like it - I like old things, I
am old and I like old things.
I am happy with my girls, they are all good
to me.
Q.
So, your family hasn't left you, they are still around.
A.
Oh, yes, they are all here and generous and so are my son-in-laws ..
Q.
So it was an accomplishment to you?
A.
Yes.
And you found all the effort was worth it?
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes, I'm repaid for it.
It must be very gratifying.
Yes, of course there is religion involved too.
I guess I preach sometimes
too because some of my girls are ver-J close to religion too, some are not
so close and their husbands too.
But they are all good men, that is One thing
I am thankful for. When I hear somebody say something about mother-in-laws,
I don't like that. I have no difficulties with my son-in-laws - why do others
have difficulty? I don't Imow. What more do I want in life? Right now
I couldn't ask for any better - I don't: live in luxury but I like it. I
keep my house as clean as I can and of course I am busy.
Q,
Do you feel that when you had this large family, did you feel like a pioneer?
A.
No.I tried to get to the top, that is all.
Q.
And this was a place to do it?
A.
Really what I had in mind was the future of my girls and I wanted them to have
better than what I had, at any cost.
time, no sacrifices.
I wouldn't back up on no work, no
I would have done without shoes or stockings, or any-
�1Q.
A.
Q.
A.
thing to let them have it so they could go on.
It is nice that all of your girls grew up well and they still come and see
you and you a.re vecy happy with them. You mentioned about being French
and how you loved being French.
So what I go for that I believ e in is to lea:rn to speak it well, use the
proper words and your proper grammar.
So you don't like the Quebecoisi.J;c.,.\e<..~ 1~
Not too much. When we were small a funny thing happened.
There were some
Quebecois but the kids were always tormenting us because we were French
Belgian, you see, my father was from Belgium. They kept hounding us and
calling us "The Belgians" or something like that and at one point we went
to Mama and asked her why they kept calling us that name. We were proud to
be French Belgians you Imow. You see, my father's parents were from France
and they had to imigrate to Belgium after or I think before my father's time.
My mother just said "Call them Green Canadians" and of course we went out
Q.
A.
like a shot and if after they said anything about our being French Belgian,
- I don't know why we resented being called that because that is what we
were - of course we called them Green Canadians.
Did you find that this pride was a spiritual need in you?
No, I think it is more the French feeling - and old country French - and that
is home and country.
You die for your country - you lay down your life for
your country first of all - and I think that is what it was.
Although my
mother was a Canadian born and my father was old country French and their
mother was from the U.S.. My mother never really talked that way to us,
but of course we had old count:ry French people too and then our relatives
were all older than my father was and without hestitation you lay down your
life for your countcy and your flag was .. that's it.
Q.
Did you find any of these feelings lacking because you lived in these small
communities in Northern Ontario?
A.
Q.
You mean lacking in me or in other people?
From your sur-.coundings .
A.
Yes.
. .......... Nobody has the same interests.
Maybe they would if they were
in another country. I don't think people really talk about it or are interested the same as we were. Because most of the people of my father's generation
were from the old country and that is what makes the difference and maybe
�t
r:. ~lk.r
c...; '"1"?.\"'\J;~
if I were in another country myself it would make a difference. A •••••• And
that is the only kind of wood she had in the winter time and she had only
a cook stove.
She had to keep on making fire all night long in order not
to be cold because the little boy was not very old and the little girl either.
So my kids found out on the way to school that they stopped so we went to
see her and she told us_she had been up all night making the fire.
her to come over
I told
and they stayed with us until I don't know what happened.
Until she had something else to help her but the wages were all the men
could get at that time
Q.
- was five dollars a month on the highway.
Do you wish there had been more co-operation between the women in these communities or do you think there was a great deal of co-operation?
A.
I think the co-operation was as good as it could be, considering the conditions.
If you have no work, what can you do?
Iffyou don't earn any
money - I know, I went through that after the First World War - you just can't
do nothing.
What can you do?
You are raising children, poor little babies
and you give them all you can and you are just barley living yourself.
could tell you a true story.
I
When I just had Jean and Madelaine - that-
spring was before my husband went to Kashobowie, he was out of work all winter
long.
As careful as I was to try to have something to eat, and all we had
was bread and p:o:vrid.ge and brown sugar.
And then came springtime so my
husband left to go to Kashabowie for work there which was supposed to be a
steady job which he gladly took, and then I didn't want to spend any more ~
money than I had to.
When it came to the last of the brmm sugar I just
cave them to my two little kids and I did without it with the porridge.
That last month I wanted to spend as little as I could.
That were the sac-
rifices we did during the Depression along with so many other people.
sure I was not the only one.
Some were more fortunate of course - those
that were established you know.
thing.
I am
But when you just start, you start with no-
It is just like a business, you start a business on small money.
You do it but you have got to be careful and know that you get no wages for
yourself and it takes time before you have enough to call your own.
Q.
A.
Did you have any time fo:r yourself at all?
With 8 children in less than 14 years?
No.
·-"":
and I washed diapers for 8 children on the board.
on the board.
\
I did my sewing, I did my knitting
I washed for ten
- e
&us
�Q.
Did you ever think sometimes that you couldn't stand it any more?
A.
I felt there would never be · an end to it sometimes.
I saw other people it was or-ay, it boosted me up.
Not aJ.l the time, if
If I didn't see people
every week, or if I couldn't go to church - that is why I went to the United
Church actually, that is what took me over there because by going there
every week it gave me a boost.
Q.
What was the longest period you went without seeing anybody?
A.
I don't know, weeks or a month.
Q.
What did you do?
A.
In a place like that, you've got to carry water in to cook , to wash, to wash
That must be very very depressing.
I
your floor, to wash your children, to do the washing, to do everything.
is a lot of water to carry, and that takes a lot of us.
That
There is wood to be
carried in, there is ashes to take out, there is water to take out, there
a clothesline uas never· too close to a house as a rule.
bread once or twic~ a week for that many people.
You hawe to make
You had to go and dig
your potatoes if you had them, you have to go and work your garden .. You
have to sew, in those days we patched, not like today.
We patched clothes
in those days so it was Monday; wash, Tuesday you did the ironing that we
don't do today; Wednesday you mended and you mended socks until you couldn't
mend them any more.
You patched and sewed buttons.
So you wash your dishes
you wash the little faces, the little hands,put them back to bed and the
next morning you ihook the covers and you made the beds again and you feed
them and all that and you are busy.
There comes a time when you want -t o
see someone from outside.
a
Q..
You just have to get away for
little while.
A.
Yes, you have to otherwise you uould just - you get so lonesome, you fe·e1
there will never be an end to it.
It is as if you were caught in a trap.
Q.
So you did feel trapped sometimes?
A.
Yes, I did.
If I saw somebody taJ.k to somebody, I was up again.
I could break loose.
As long as
Break from the burden of the family where I was tied
down and I i-ron 't leave them, they were my children and I stood by them at aJ.l
times until they were about 18.
There was joy and a lot of sorrow and dis-
appointment.
Q.
Can you tell me about that?
Hhat would make you particularly happy, aside
from seein6 your children grow up happy and intelligent?
�,o
A.
To Imow that your children are away and you see that they are going to do
well for themselves.
They grow up to be honest women.
Uhat more do you
uant?
Q.
A.
That was completely fulfilling for you?
Yes.
What more could I wish :for?
pies - they were reserved.
Q.
They choose good men, they were not .hip-
They choose their company also.
_
Do you believe there has been a positive change for women's roles in this
~
community, for say, your daughter?
A.
I think so.
They are freer.
In my time, women had to be so careful not to
look sideways - you' re talked about - or you don't have to do nothing but'.
people will think something.
You didn't dress like I am dressed now.
matter hoH hot it was you had to have stockings on.
free - they are so lucky.
Q.
No
Today the women are so
Oh, if I had the chance that the girls have today.
If you did have the chance to be my age, what do you think you would like-to do?
A.
I would travel and I would go for mission work.
Q.
Hhy mission work?
A.
To help the less fortunate.
Q.
So, you like_giving things.
A.
Right now, I bet you I am the only person who does what I am doing right
·:.1
now.
Q.
A.
What are you doing?
Of course I work with the hospitals, I donate good things, new things or
almost new things.
Sometimes they have too much and what can they do with
that but pack those good clothes and have them burnt.
should make quilts for the poor with that.
six quilts.
One day I said we
So far this year I have made
All it costs me is just 2 or 3 dollars to make and if I have
quite a few on hand sometimes and if I sell them I usually turn the money
over to the hospital.
Q.
So you would like to do missionaI'J Hork in Canada?
A.
Abroad.
Q.
Any cot1ntry in particualar?
A.
In the days when I just would have loved to go to school, I would have went
to China.
Q.
I hav~ been to China .
.fl
A.
Have you?
Ue have a Chinese girl here.
I would do the work here, but as:"l ong
as I help somebody less fortunate than I am.
I don't like to give to people
�uho can afford to buy.
Somebody that needs it, regardless of colour or'
creed.
Q.
Do you think that you got this attitude because of your childhood - of giving
and sharing and hard work?
A.
No, I think it was more the Depression.
In the Depression after World War
I, we were not the only ones who were hard hit.
It is like when we were
small we went on that bush farm - there were other settlers also- but I don't
think they were much better off than we were.
Q.
Do you think that your mother taught you a lot of things that were valuable
Hhen you had a family?
A.
I was not close enough to her.
Q.
You wish you had learned more you mean?
A.
No.
I wanted to: .look out for myself, I was a bit independant.
told that many times and I believe it now.
Q.
I have been
--What
You must remember the time that they brought in the vote for women?
did you think about that?
A.
I think it uas good.
the work.
Why shouldn't we have anything to say, we do half
I believe it is right.
think what the, what it is.
•r hey don't care.
I don't think the men really stop and
If they vote, they just vote and that is it.
And I guess some women too.
When I vote, I vote for that
man because I think he will do something .
Q.
You wouldn't like to get deeper involved in politics though?
A.
Not now, I would have once upon a time.
Q.
What did you wish to achieve?
A.
I would have liked to have been up there and give them my opionion on some
___.--,
things.
Q.
~Then was this?
A.
Durine; Depression time .
In the 1930 's.
It was a time when my girls were
studying to go to high school and they had to write exams.
ll ell, we had
to pay for that - that one dollar meant so much, and of course I d:ldn 't
like that.
I thought some of my girls would be school teachers but they
got into anything else but teaching.
Q.
Did you teach them to be independant and stand on their ,os.m two feet rather
than depend on someone?
A.
I must have because they are all independant.
Some of them, my goodness.
The same with me, the smaller ones are so spunky.
that they are all honest women.
Uhat I am happy about is
And they are all hard workers.
When they
�do something they do it well, they work better than I do •
.Q.
A.
Q.
Well, you must have taught them something.
I guess I started them, but, it is like if they are knitting or crocheting,
it has to be perfect when they do it.
Is there anything that you would like to see done within your society? Anything about people's rights that you would like to work for? For instance
the Women's Movement?
A.
Q.
A.
I don ' t Jmow.
Other than missionariJ work, and you do do a lot of work for the hospital.
Uhat I regret, maybe in a larger center it was like that a long time ago
although I uas young then, but if it was, if such situations existed, then
I don't know, I wasn't in the gang.
I regret so much - you see some young
people with all their lives ahead of them with nothing to do. I have tried
because sometimes I had to help some of the women with a group of girls to
do something in their clubnork, and they have nothing to do.
I say that
they should learn to sew, and that I would show them if they wanted. If
someone wants to learn, I'm right there - or knit. But they don't seem to
be interested. And it seems to me, at least with my sisters, and cousins,
we had something that we were working at.
we even had work we could do.
At noon hour and recess at school
We were at it and we were so ambitious and
tta t was the case with everyone, but you don't see that today. And another
thing you notice at school, I don't say everyone is like that but that is
what. I saw, when they learn their sewing at school, they put something
crooked or something wrong, they don't want to undo it and start over again.
Undo it and start over again and then it will be well done.
If I had been
a teacher I would have been too strict I guess - I would have expected too
much.
Q.
It is a hard life and I don't think you can train people too much to go out
and face what goes on in the irnrld.
A.
And then, it seems to me that we were so busy when we were that age and I
Q.
don't think that the kids have that today. We had a group of girls for a
couple of years, that the school sent to us if we wanted them.
llho is "we", what organization is this?
A.
The school teachers. In a way they were to do some work for us.
waited for the day they were allowed to come out to do our work.
So we
Try to see
�.·,.
.
--··
;,
if you can ma;ke them do it. You show them how to go about it, and that is
the way I want it to be done and that is the way it is supposed to be done.
No way they would do it. That wasn't the way they did it. They want to do
what they want and not what we want. When I went to work and I learned when
we worked, we do what our mistress wanted us to do, they wanted it done
that way and that was it. They don't always send the same girls and we
must have had 8 or 10 girls, and if 2 from that 8 or 10 was willing to do
the work, that was about it.
teach.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
The kids don ' t like to learn, they want to
Ihlearned that a long time ago - don ' t tell me you know how to work
better than I do.
I asked you what you would like to do if you were my age, you are obviously
very active - what do you plan on continuing?
As long as I can.
You just want to keep doing.
I hope so. I had one of my aunts from Belgium,
She stayed all alone until
she was '90 and that was in the country were there is no convenience - carry
the water in, carry the ashes out - and she stayed by herself until she was
And thn I guess came the time that she couldn't do anything else ..... .
You just shoned us what you are doing, the beautiful quilts and knitting
90.
Q.
and . ...
A.
And my scrapbooks.
Q,
You have scrapbooks too? So you like to stay on top of things.
In one of my books that I have, I have the first stamp of the hospital when
A,
there were only two rooms.
Tha.nk--you Mrs. Peltier.
I like. all history like that.
�
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/d7078ae188dc5963689e890f8f82c25f.pdf
7654ee5ca4b41e0f85e235b9659c7584
PDF Text
Text
MRS. PELLETIER-Atikokan
Mrs. Pelletier will be 79 in December 1975.
She has lived
in Winnipeg, Emo and Atikokan.
She has eight children and has
also raised two grandchildren.
She is a deeply religious
person, now she has four dogs and says she is very good at
playing cribbage she has played since 1949.
She would have liked to have more for her children when
they were growing up, she said she was like the Old Woman In Th
I
Shoe, her children were always clean and ~ e never in rags.
She always washed and ironed and patched all their clothes.
In
those days if you had to manage on seventy dollars a month you
did.
They paid $800 for their house and paid $20 a month with-
out interest and of course she had her garden.
nothing to anybody.
Today she owes
Inflation doesn't affect her to much, she
says she is careful with her money and is used to hard times.
She said as long as her children were fed and were comfortable
it 4idn't bother her.
She thinks you have to live from day to
day and make the best of it, you've got to be willing and accep
it.
Her husband was different from her she was very outgoing
he didn't like it but when she wanted to go out she did her
work at home and slipped out.
He never stopped her from going
out.
If she had to do it over again she said she would never
live like this, she would have travelled or taught.
had it rough and cried a lot but stuck it out.
Shes had
She never had t
the pill so the babies kept coming and coming and she never
had one of her children in the hospital.
.
�MRS PELLETIER
ATIKOKAN
old in December
Mrs. Pelletier will
Religion
Mrs. Pelletier a de eply religious person states "So many things of
course we think about it, no m~tter how we are r aised ............... .
.................. some belief of our own even if wed 't
about it or discuss it wj JJ:i nobody eJ se 01 1r f .lith grows to be ia
such a wa
ou k ow
You believe and I believe and some things
we don't believe and we think doesn't make sense and so·on. And
it was like that with me, but I'm against certain things. If it's
supoosed to be that way OK let it be, don't matter to me but, don't
make sense to me so I let it go over my head."
Mrs. Pelletier makes reference to a recent stay at Avila Center which
she enjoyed.
Dogs t
Mrs. Pelletier has 4 dogs in the house, ..................... " My
Baby sleeps beside me."
Cri
at it but I can handle
On her pioneer life
What I hated most was to wash his jeans and iron them and patch them,
It had to be done, my dear lady, we WJuld have been in r~gs and it's
something that no matter how little I had and how many children,
) ; ke the OJ d vyPWiU1,.__i_n ~ll.oe,_.my child-r.-.en ne~.r: -went with soi Jed cJ otbes.
: the·
-.....--=~=~,~...;..,;,c~-
da
but at ni
In those
days -=-~=-=!""'!!llli~~
be ironed, nobody went out with clothes that
wasn't
---~:--did and you know some women
Often wondered hov,1 I done it but it h;;id to be done. They wondered
how I baked. My husb 1nd was working and I had to bake something for
for his lunch that was better and of course with the children I had
to. Pies maybe for Sunday.
:.::.::..;:;.c....,....::.:.;;;~~::-,,r...;..;....~..__-= __,~ . _ _
�Question
"Were .YAU eyer reaJ ly Pnbaooy wi r,b yo 11 t 1 ; fe?"
Answer
" I would h ave liked more for the sake of my children, I always
wanted something. I would h ave liked enough money, but when I needed it,
I ne~ded to buy a pair of shoes I could go and buy it, but I always had to
wait, sometimes 'till pay day, 15 days maybe sometimes a month before
I could go buy the pair of shoes and I hated like heck to go
to the store and say "Well, could you wait 'till next payday so we
c 3.n pay for th3.t pair of shoes."
••····•··•••·•··•····•••·•···••••··••····I suppose everybody was hard up
but they and 2 children. Oh it was 40 below that morning, so cold so
after my breakfast ............................. "She had been up all night
just making fires, she had ~nly dry poplar wood to make fires, it's
a fire that don't last and no heat. She had been up all night just
keeping the fires, so cold. So I took them all in, her and
her 2 little children and I kept them a couple of days."
Question
"Could
Answer
"When you h ad t~. you d~."
Question
nn·
d OU h ave to
? n
~~.....:.i..~~----~~l\'g-~~==t:~~~~
Answer
"We aid $20.00 a month on the house
We pought it fqr $$QQ QO
but they made it e asy. We f.).aid $20.00 and no interest. ..Q.f -uCPwc.s
we h~d our arden too
~mprJ1-i o J;_bo.se...da.µ, 6
Packa es of seeds for 25¢ •
..... .... .... ... ........ ..... ..... ........ ... . ..... ..... .........
You have to do it. When you think exactly what you need. With my
pension I live good, keep somebody, give them a cup of tea, what you
like to do. Each day I'm above board, I owe nobody nothing, I want
something extra ....... and I h ave still something in my pocket
�QUESTION
?fl
"Do y:ou find infl
Answer
" Not me personally, guess because I'm careful, I'm used to hard times.
It's the best time in my life, the easiest time, because when I have my
little babies as long as they were fed, dressed and I Know they
were confortable, nothing mattered to me. _It didn't matter if I had
one dress to wear. I'd take if off a night, wash it at night, let
it dry through t ~e night and put it on the next morning, it didn't
matter to me. I would h ave liked to have more, but as long
as my baby was comfortable. . ....................... .
Sometimes I felt there was not enough to go around, but I got something
that had to be got. My husband was working outside, he h d to have
clothes that wqs wann. It was far more expensive to dress him up
th an anyone else. There was a few things that my mother gave me or my
sister . gave me, I could always cut it to make a little dress for my
girls ••..........•............. "knitted mitts, knitted sox and scarves
for my 8 children, I don't know how I done it but I never stopped ..
... .. ... ... . . . . .. . .... . ........... ..... .. ...... .. ....... .. .. .......
"I t hink you have to live from d ay to day and you got to be willing
to accept what comes and make the best of it."
"We li veei in a small town, Emo.
something for t h eir future"
husband was not
Ques tion
"M
ny gµ
are
All my girls h ad to leave home to learn
mix.!~.,• ~ox t..ake p art-.in SQmething.
a yer.,,._.r,.:~~~~~~a1:::ld!:'-"
Answer
"Yes I am. I'm the o oosite"
Question
nn•ct OU
ou?"
"Yes"
"How did :t_OU live with it"
'~0h you
"Was he unhap py b~cause yqu were gute;ging?"
Answer
"Oh he was but for me to live
out
like . t .tlgt wbe,,q
not that I leave
to be done, when I see t~at it's
done then I sli
commi t _tee work.
----
�Question"Was your husband eyer mean to you becau se you went apt?"
Answer
"Oh he told me a oi ece of his mind."
Que ~tion
"He di dn' t s to 0 •..ro u from
Answer
"No I was too detennined •
. .. ... .. ... . . . . ........ .. .. ..
"My self
ad -the chance • n life believe me I would have done
nothin like I did do. I wouldn't h ~ve lived this,~.~~;~~~~~~been tre.vellin
te '::. chin and in mi e. sion work but I didn't have that chanc
I just h ave public school, in f act I didn't leArn Eng
just picked uo EnglisJl:
"I wish I could live another 10 years like I -=l_i _v___,.;:...,,......-;::;i,.....
fun in that 10 years •
................. ... ...
"I cut grass" (This was the first year she didn't dig the g Rrden twice
a year herself)
" t First it was hard."
rt/
ou marr a man we think we know him but we don't. After we
pa ere he's not the man
that contract, he's
you have some arguments too, I've shed tears and ha
throu h h ard times. But I stuck tom
..... ........ ..
Tbere was ·no_p_ill in that time and the b ~bies were
coming just as fast as I could have them without all the ne The only time I was in the hospital sick in my life, not th at I felt
good either, it was when I h ad a broken kne6w about 9 years ago.
Question
nyou never
e bos.p-;Lt al?"
Answer
I won't know what to ex ect to
ed home " "0
I think I neeaed those 10 days.
�\
to sur:no~t
?.
/ \ ~- \J
\
t
I ~::...,
l'l
·•
doctJr in ful.l, 2.mi 1,-;ouJ..J -r.er:d assistance ir. sh·: ,•:[1.._- of
,1e ar<J situated on the Ct-: 11adlan iJatiom.1.l :(aih.,ra:,:s, the f j rst
t9r:nln:1l '>'lest of i-'ort Art\rnr and hd.ve a large number of railway men
runnini~ into this villag~ llncl 0ul te a nwnb~r of ernnloyeP.s in thr:' loca.l
yards a;1d s!10ps. uur nearest doctor to t!1e east is located at i· ort .:1.rt . .1u',
lL/' miles &.way,
and to the west at Fort .r'rances, 90 ;n_~les dista:1t.
l}.n·
c•::ly rn-:: ar..; of trans Portation is a tri-weckly train service ,:.1.ch ·.,.r_..y. "e
t1 ave !10 ~o.:..:.d::; or lligln-la:/s. in case of serio:1s illness we ·1us: Hn.i.t for
two or t hr~-> iays or1 train service.
de have created
0 oclr.>t:r rr.aintn.ins
c1.
J.
small Red Cross Hc,spital
nurs~. This would be an advantap;e
__;i;rnP-d:
.·:Lirk ,1hi teheaj
;~. Cho~/slwn
:10 r~n-~I':' ."\. .:hn:..:s
,(. i-'arad.i.s
,., . u • Connell
Glc.,:·"'nc~ Jefff!cy
; . 0hrdepuik
J • tlcCutclleon
°:,J.C.
s.~.
Gordon
Sameron
C. Gliver
H. Ra.suck
·.--J .J. HcKonne;r
~. ~oy~o
J. riaffyGlrnk
!~. Sandalowich
f·:eN~
t,.1
\·.rLer~ t!1 ,.,
a doctor.
:•.l~~- ; v;;ter
}'.. ~l;:iba
F.t. 1-loore
:...d.anta
it. Jrni th
Hi.~e Looa
F. Au·r>cy
A. Albert
T .. :JF~d:1arsk:i
U. 3krinsid.
v.A. Otto.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herstory: Grace Pelletier
Subject
The topic of the resource
People
Women's History
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Grace Pelletier of Atikokan. Interview performed by Helen Lovekin, October 15 1975, as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project.
The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available here as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnails.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1975-10-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Audio
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Atikokan
Canada - Ontario - Emo
Canada - Ontario - Kashabowie
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/dbd9f7654e23589b1391af4c2f2355cb.mp3
d0fbea1fa429f42bd0aa3d367c6988bb
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/af859eb01913e169fa0d4d2aa1312c25.mp3
edc72996619376e70addd6a0f0d530f1
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/3eaa8a6235fe57fbc4d488e1eb849729.mp3
b0e4f06bd4050bfb2fdf6f75979cde65
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/c032fea0855f4d81c3b59d9a4ef3eef9.mp3
3707aaed138524bc0a81d915abb73875
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/58cb742b6db3bc67d1c7fe638f05929b.pdf
815399a90a0a8a7471dc9c2e3b018bb6
PDF Text
Text
/)Jo. ~~ ~~/4 .,
/}fl~ ~~ ~ ~~v ~
-
:;;~
~~-~p
2:{)
,~()/t/3-t
,I read your bookletoon Silver Islet history and you indicate on
!"
'µ\,,
,~
. VQ IM..i......
the label set but I don't want to leave XH anything in that area but what
I would like to do is to go back into your own life in the early
~
part of your childhood and talk about as you remember growing up,
~hat i~ ~our personal life story.
-A
Well among the first things that I remember of course living in
Port Arthur, there were board sidewalks all over the place.
I imagine
they were made of good white pine planks, all over the place, there
was no cement at all, and there were cracks and if you happen to
drop a nickmm or a penny why you could see them through the light
of the crack but then it was to get an older brother with a
not~s
~itx
and get it out.
p=
a pick or something to hook up this plank, you see,
It was quite something that all the young people
did as they walked along to see if there be a glint, and if there
were xexx why then finders xsssexs is keepin you see, aM ~f course
there was just one public school.
Now the first public school mind
you there were two or more that were run by xke just Miss somebody
or other that would gather a group of children but finally there was
a school set up and was two rooms and it was divided, I don't know
ex~~ii¥ what grades went into which rooms but anyway that's all there
was.
Q. What year was this?
A. It was before my time because that
school is now a double house or else four suites next to the Baptist
Church in Port Arthur, but when it got too small then a front was
put on and that's the front of the Central School over in Port Arthur
up on by Gore Park.
Well then when the ... and the two rooms were at
the back of it joined on and when that became too small th~setwo
rooms were moved over by the back of the church somebody bought it
and made into two or four suites or a double house and then the
�present addition I think 8 rooms was put on the back of it and
that was the only school there except the Catholic school.
Well
then about 65 years or more ago there was a new Methodist church
being built which is Trinity and the old church was moved down the
hill and down Bay Street now Algoma Street to where Secord School
is and it made two rooms and that was the first school, what do
you call those schools not the central school (primary) anyway it
was the first school other than the central school in the city
and everybody,everybody had to go to Central school first and
then the people that crowded in and built up the south end of
Street
Port Arthur had this Secord/School to go to. Then I think the next
school that was built St. James Street school way down Court Street.
Q. Of all
first, Thunder Bay North, Port Arthur,
preceded Fort William development?
A. Oh no, Port Arthur was
or Fort William was first, it was the fourth.
xxxsx
Q. What we call the
East end now must have developed then was what was called Fort
William then, near the old Fort?
A. Yes, that's why down in the
East End there are McLaughlin Street, McTavish and all those Scots
names, named after the Hudson Bay men, the whole place most of it
has Scots names because most of the Hudson Bay men were Scots.
Port Arthur you walked to school of course.
then, in what area?
In
Q. Where was your home
A. Well the first home was at this end of
Court Street before Bay, there was nothing from Bay Street on
(just wilderness) Yes, just wilderness, just swamp, cranberries.
Q. Even in the 40's when
Jix
moved up here that was still swamp
Intercity was largely swamp there?
A. Oh yes, well you see in
prehistoric time this was a great bay than rairup as far as XR&HEekH
Kakebeka Falls and then they claim that there was a Afpping and
the water drained here and piled up over on the south shore of
Lake Superior but however, it drained out and only wiggling Kaministiqua
�River was left to drain it and x it was all swamp right from the
height of land at Port Arthur to the mountain, it was all swamp
and they declared they could never build a town or a city here because
it was, they called it"Frog Town" it was full of frogs, it was a
real swamp.
lands and of
Well they started in to build
course the draining just kept on in some part down in the coal dock
they pumped the sewage and the ...
Q. All of waste that has to be
A. Up and out you see EHRKHSe but of
pumped because of
course Port Arthur is on the hillside so they had to
around
as well there but Port Arthur was wooden sidewalks and mud or gravel
~
or earth t.hrowed. Q. When you were very young some of the 11e1x very
well established society in the Lakehead Thunder Bay was very elegant
in comparison to the outliffing areas?
A. Well you see all the
settlers came from the east and most-of them came from good homes
down there and they E~H~ brought some very nice furniture with them
and as they could they built their own homes.
At first there was
just the peek-through wooden houses everywhere 7well then nice homes
were built on what they called the Court Street ridge that is from
made by the hillside there and the
Court Street and
very nice homes were there.
It was many, many years afterwards, I
IVl. {,U-u,(~
suppose, ~ow 60 years or so, when they began to build up in Maragay
and those parts they were operft-y
men that would buy great
space and of course up in Mar~y it was swampy~ it was a great
blueberryppatch up there.
Q. This area here out in McIntyre River
and out towards Chippewa Park was designed to develop originally as
the
in?
~
area of the Twin Cities.
Industry has crept
A. I guess those sections outs there were finally left to the
mosquitoes and roads and they had to think of the centre of the
little town or village because after-all the stores were there.
d
�So they just kept building houses.
Q. Yet there were streetcar
tracks moving out to Chippewa Park and streetcar tracks right ijtx~ 0
Rosslyn?
A. Well the idea was that they would take them out to
Rosslyn and you know that bridge that goes xx~kx over the Kam River
has an upper structure. y ou drive through in the lower part, well that
was built meaning to have the streetcars go right out through there
the
and if the top deck is on a level with/hills on each side. There
was to be a high level xa
~
and go over the bridge right through
and span the immediate valley but then trucks came in and the farmers
didn't need the/railway to BHiX~ bring their produce in and in fact
there wasn't such a tremendous population to encourage large farms
with the selling of produce in the town,
...s.Q
i
understand it .tfo be
~laced before very long but that bridge must be oh I suppose that's
70 years old or more.
Q. There's a story that a woman designed the
first bridge across the Kam River~ so far its only a myth, I haven't
been able to track it down?
A. No, I couldn't tell you of that.
Near that bridge, the first bridge that went across and into Flint
River Valley and all was there.
You turned lQ~scorner and go across
the bttdge and you went straight on and it was a level on a river
level bridge. Q. Bigger families ~
llectio~ ~J here's
~ I
) -- ~ - - U ~ IJ..R.Arff)-4p i ct ure S of 80for 9~t.Q Oeta5ie 1golhg to Silver Islet for Sunday picnic
and very elegant thing5 ~~each other packed and so on.
ever a part of the excursion for Sunday afternoon?
Were you
A. No, we
strictly went to church and Sunday school, we wouldn't go on excursions
on Sunday but when we first were out there, Capt. Malloney xaxke~
would leave the Port Arthur dock at 10:00 on Saturday night and the
men would scramble to be shut up their stores and get it, and XHB¥X tgen
they
would reach Silver Islet by midnight and the wives would meet them
there, and help them carry home the basket of fresh meat and so forth.
The men would stay then until 8:00 o'clock Sunday night ~
the
�tugs would leave and get into town around 10:00 o'clock Sunday night.
It was oh some time after that I suppose what 65 years ago anyway
it became a grand spot, Silver Islet.
It was theonly place where
there was a dock ax decent dock and there was no highway, no #17
I
either way, you couldn't get out of town except by water and so these
sailing boats w~re old boats that were bought down east and brought
up here one at a t i m e - /44ien it was wrecked or scrapped another
one would be bought.
There were daily excursions
Ji Silver Islet
because that was the only place you could go and the old carpenter
shop was fixed up and a hardwood floor put in it and they had dances
and then for picnicing why they picniced all over the place whexerever
they wanted to open their basket.
picnic consist of in those days?
Q. What sort of food would the
A.
potato salad,
cabbage salad, but not any of the frillies pretty baking now-a-days,
sandwiches, cake and pie in the original baking dishes.
you have a bottle of wine?
Q. Would
A. Oh, I never heard of that, I suppose
some of them might have, it wasn't the outside drinking that there
is now.
changed
Q. Has the attitude xx~a towards
d~I½
in Fort William
in these past fifty years?
IA,M/'
A. Oh ~ea~
~~,,(~
ya, you see in the olden days t h e r e ~ they tell a saloon on every
corner of Cumberland Street, four corners and four saloons and right
from Arthur Street down to well Pearl Street~•- cnrd"J:t was a different
type of person that drank, drank abundantly, it was the men that
came and worked in the bush and then they would come in and they would
spend a good part if not all axx of their winter's earnings on just
getting drunk, and what they haven't spent somebody would relieve
them of.
Oh it was terrible, and a lot of drunkeness but not
educated people, not the kind now,well then when how many years ago,
Lt-'1v7
~alcohol was entirely outlawed and then it got to be considered
smart to find a .-----blind keg or be able to sneak in and then the
�/. ,. educated people they should have had more sense t ~
n'-
1'
-.le 1,,.
~~
and it§ continued, I hear so many well educated people that could
,.
be fine citizens and therjust alcoholics and the poor people, well
I guess there's a good deal of drinking of there.& beer, but you
don't hear so much about that, except in the way of crime0 J tk
generally drinking RH~ that brin~s on the crime.
So it would look
as if were headxH~ed for many years that it would be outlawed again.
In catalogues see all of the paraphanalia
xf~
making wine and beer.
b
�J
Q.
A. Well the important point is love, but then people
their own home have inner thoughts and
in
and they save
the dining room, the living room has an arch way between where the
is wooden why because of taste and some people had quite
large living uh
dining room.
This is
you know and across the hall
from
MRS
there large
I think
a comedy
thing
and they would send to Toronto
would have a first
in those days and they would send
I think it was coal that was
food sent up by Train and coal into the cubic
form and
Mrs. Mccullen
showed me a big form that just looked like a big piece of wood, but
that's what she said it just was sent up the other way the coal would
be boned
at KxxkxaHa and separatea with a fontth meatand put a
jelly in
XH sthis
form and have
H
some radishes and different
things imbedded in the jelly and then they
cook
and then the whole
this was xke a coal you see this was
thin~ was sort of levelled itself and that's what turned up here by
train and then the night of the diner party I suppose
and it was turned out onto
it would be dipped into
a
R
plack oh huge one HHa no Houbt, and then Mxss Mr.
i
great
there was no bone in it, and he would just slice right down
and leave the outside room with jelly and
be ice cream and
70 years ago. This was a terrific
maid or maids
maae/and others borrowed
Then there would
before cherries that's about
and we had axxxs girl
and they had all this cleared away and after the ice cream, and the
�cake and the cheese cake, and pie oh the cooking would be tremendous
Graham
and then there's a dance. Well George Rxa~ now they and the
McTabish were the leading socialites in Fort William and this George
Graham's first home was down on the river like the McKellar home
just way down here out straight down and they had lawns and a lovely
that goes
home ~xase down to the river and they had beautiful and they were
very nice.
When the~ the railway
tracks were moved from down in the East end up here, all those houses
were either raised or moved and her's was moved out to the corner
of Archibald and
Metcalfe?
? and
on the south corner of Archibald and
quite a large
house well there's
after he built everything on this side and he built a
great big park
and when the other
of the old house there's a garden decorated with
big parlour and then Peter had an
office there
interested and
Died off and I was no longer
xx
he came down just a meeting about once a year
or once every two years or so, and when he
and
there's all the papers were brought to me one time to digest and write
but I was ill
and I was ill for a long time
but I happened
for whatever I could be any worth
on my bed the box could be geared over and Mr. Langley had brought
so
this here to skaH when I was
so he
took the
one day when he was home and gave it to Bill
Langley in his office.
They had them kept in a trunk in the basement
of the library, the old library, well it got to be oh not many years
ago somebody wanted to know where those papers were, so I told them
in the libaary.
Well they hunted in the library and then
thing.insi'd e out cou ld n I t f'in d t h e
turned thexaaxxH~
trunk and in the mean time Mr. Langley had just died
and one of
I
�daughters
oh was I thrilled because I did my part xax~ex he
~~x
gave them right
back to me because he had brought thmmx to me and I couldn't tell
John go xi~kx &Hgk find whoever had the key to this trunk and whoever
finds xxwa ix the key I would do my part.
Oh that's what happened.
Well the older people those thatw were left, when those older people
had joined to form what we call ..... they would alternate the
meetings but would be very well attended because there xaliieae more
people wka maxe«
and there were some in Port Arthur
really new comers although they were elderly and then they progressed
to having a building and my mind simply thought well at xeHxx these
meetings were over the library and this is why the ... and then you
see these new people which was all
revitalize the
wanted to
and do the museum and have about
up and coming things was in my surprise I said would become of these
Port Arthur people where very impressed, they
outside
and I said well my goodness are you going to do it?
its wonderful to have some a~iside that are going to revitalize it,
they didn't even sayH anything, however,
but you see the end of these between these two towns, but of course
they're one now but I mean
in the west xi«e end isn't died
off, it takes a generation of folks to die off.
Mind you in the
olden days it was a «ixxiii~x thing because they MaHx« were quite
isolated in the winter, cut off, entirely isolated
cut off still and they had good fights just tremendous fights that
brought often HH« xkex any other day and this kept them alive.
Q.
weren't enough.
A. Oh yes, because there
Q. There wasn't enough
A. Yes ae~HHXe if they want they could have it, you were
�/0
in Port Arthur and they were very
friendly, those people
? A. Yes, you see
Q. Do things like that
their grandfather came to Ontario when everything
a long time ago to the land
if you took the land and you were told that only mining was sss xke
~~xsxKHsx~~HXkKs
KHSX~~HxkKsxx~ x~ took a fold and you had to hope
cariboo and also to the California gold and therefore be
something a miner and you just sent by the Allie Mining Co. who their
representative here and they kKs have prospectors all through the
bush.
I would expect there would be a thousand prospectors all
through the bush, mind you it would be so many miles out where they
were
and I suppose they were out about xke all the
substance where they win but .... Q.
A. Yes, maybe forty years ago, a long time ago, ...
Q. Would
A. Well they, yes, that was established by a
:f:xxm called a
i~~,
they had six xliii and the grandmother and he and my aunt they
then
had six sons KHs, then there was
and/they had three
daughters.
Then grandmother and grandfather and the girls at that
why the sons were all fixed with tradeaown east
machinist
and father was a IIXKHSX and they weren't just ordinary tradesmen
time were
they were really sHpex supper, I guess all of them had two trades
before they were
a handyman.
, and of course in those days you were
There was a University in Toronto father wanted to
us and back home there was
what we found in Toronto.
So father
from
and
my mother and brothers like a
another one has a foundry now and also coal mine next to the one
�II
who has a foundry and something else, and the oldest brother has
something call
RH~
end of an old building
~ln'.HXXH
not an archway,
oh my goodness that was very long ago, but only he would
he would be back and also with a potter maker and that's very still
Well they had all these things,
the brothers, and m¥ grandmother thought that this was going to be
arain city
•
a ~xeax
an d t h ere way you h a d to come h ere an d th e west wou ld
come here
and they
coming into this
they would set
now but she just told the boys
up and they would all go inx~ =together, so the day came when they
guilt the Port Arthur Iron Ore
all
under one roof, and they were
BR
?
and it was
A. The year, well 92 years ago, 1873, and father was married/before
Eva
lffRthe first child was born so he stayed down east and he knew the
Q. What year did
Indians?
He bought them food and came up
in July of that year and the Crothers had been here putting up buildings.
there~was
The CPR was coming through and it was going through
RR
~x~
no
foundry between Toronto and Winnipeg and there was so many
being done so father would that they
would be working night and day to settp the
and get the
He had this xi~ little engine that they had set up a
boiler to give them the power to run the little engine, it would run
all over
in the machine shop.
to put up a
Now in the foundry they had
and all kinds of things there and
in the blacksmith's shop
fordge and all this.
Well iMewas the
machine shop that was taking xkeixx~x~exs the longest and they
were trying to get this boiler to get it started but in the meantime
.
as
it was hard for them to get the material so they set them up XR a
line and if you know anything about a steam shaft why they
or electricaR~&they had a ~zezz¥ great
�overhead and they had leather belts over those between downhill
heal on their
and they would sew the machine
belt,,would be to turn the machine
this rubber thing would be
on.
and
and then he put extended
So they set them up
and he put a great big candle and would ....
the
long
enough for two or three men to stand, but those men could and turn
it was a
the handle of this forget the word,
anyway
they came back then they could release the strap came on from a small
wheel to a large wheel the large whe~l and then back again and
they could turn, I don't know how many men, they could turn
the
and then before you have the boilerJ~He engine boiler
they
then you have the cooler working
and then ¥~H would
matter
i~rkx~most of the night to fill th e
then
r-X ~-xH
/boiler and that was no easy
they got the little engine going and its a kooky engine but you
and
but it was an old man who
know the staff/they were well
would start as long as I could remember but it was a grave price
so much noise, so much going on after
shop
blacksmith/ around
school there were always boys who
town that would need men well the blacksmith would RH ask him to
help with the fordge you know this sort of
A. Yes, and X
Q.
KR
I
ix was awful after school and on Saturdays this nice old boy and I
found out
that he was one of the men
he worked
I guess
he kept track of everything and
like the handyman
�
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/d879455e6691b905a588f780a4c40db1.pdf
b8d9aa7b2c6d2f103b99d16600f8879b
PDF Text
Text
.·, 1
MRS. GER~RUDE DYKE~-Norah Street
The first thing she remenbers is living in Port Arthur
and that there were board sidewalks all over.
She thinks
they were made of white pine planks, there w s no cement at
all.
The boards had cracks in them and for fun they used to
try and get money that was dropped between the cracks out they
used pliers or a pie or anything to hook the board so the \
0
could get the money out.
There was just one public school and
she doesn't know the date this was.
It had just two roans and
they were divided.
It is now a do 1ble house next to the Baptist
Ghurch in Port Arthur, this is the ori r. inal building they did
build on to it and it is now the front of the Central School
near Gore Park. About 65 years a g o there was~ new Metho ~ist
Church being built and the dld one wa s moved down the hill
and down Bay 0treet to where the Secord Schoo1 is and that
was the first school besides the Central uchool, the next
school was on St James Street. Port Arthur and Fort Nilliam
were built fourth the first to be built up was the East End
were l 1cLau ·· hlin and McTavish Streets are.
The first home w·s
at this end of Court Street before Bay from there on there was
just wilderness.
In the forties inter~ci ty was still swamp area.
The} s~id they could never build anything on it, it was full of
frogs and when the~ did try to build the sand just sunk and it
dr2.ined.
When people settled here they broucht t _e best furniture
as they did come from good families ~own East.
The nicehomes
were built on Court Ridge and many ~, ears later they started to
build in Mariday and it was swampy this was out towards Ghippewa
Park this was suppose to be the residential area but industry
crept in.
When she was young she was never part of the e~cursion
that went to Silver Islet for Sunday picnics.
There was no hi 6 hway or any other way to get out of town so they had to use old
boats that were sold down East and brought her~.
The picnics
used to consist of potato salad, cabbage salad, sandwiches, cakes
and pie.
In her day there was the usual drinking, there were four
�saloons, and it was men that worked in the bush that used to
drink all their wages up in one ni c ht of drinking.
Ste said
it was outlawed to drink and it wasn ' t educated people who drank
then but she thinks there would be better people if they didn't
all drink so much, crime wouldn't be as bad if there was no
drinking.
Around the year 1875 0PR was coming thro ugh.
�
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/3f780398215efb8d448801dfa135afb2.pdf
4e8efdff911365f2c76e9e145e0d7dd5
PDF Text
Text
7/ J..~ lI
✓
•!
I
' I.
\
HERSTORY
PROJECT
Mrs. G. Dyke interviewed by Helen Lovekin
Mrs. Dyke:
Q.
Now what do you want to know about?
First I would like to ask you some general questions and then some specific
ones that we have come across in our research.
How long have you been in
Thunder Bay?
A.
All my life.
Q.
Uhat did your family do?
A.
My grandfather came 130 years ago and at that time his mail was addressed to
Thunder Bay.
I was born in Port Arthur.
He came to Thunder Bay as representative of a mining company,
he had gone to the California Gold Rush and to the Caribou (Canadian Gold
Rush), so he knew quite a bit about minerals.
His sons all lean1ed trades
so four of therncombined and came to Port Arthur and built Woodside Iron
~1 orks.
The company still exists in P.A. .
It is
9.5 years ago, this July since
my father and mother came because the boys stayed down east when their father
and mother came he.:ie, and they learned their trades.
Then there was the black-
smith and the machinist and the pattern maker and one was a carriage maker
an:i painter.
They all seemed to have two trades and they were all master mech-
anics in whatever they undertook.
So their mother thought that the Lakehead
would be the Chicago of the north, before there was any C.P.R. running through,
So they came up - four of the six boys - to the Lakehead and with their
father they built the first building and had that all ready and father was
buying the machineT"J down east and making it because he made the first engine
that was used in the shop, and it was
8.5 yars ago, the 19th of July.
I don't
remember dates but my oldest sister was 6 weeks old when they came up; they
crossed the lake in a sidewheeler and one of father's oldest brothers was
settled in Port Arthur and so they started up right away.
inery in rie;ht away, as soon as it came up with father.
ing towards P.A.
9.5 years ago bu£.\ is wasn't up to P.A..
and so they could cast iron things.
I
They put the mach-
The C.P.R. uas buildThey hall a foundry
The C.P.R. was desperately in need of
foundry and ma<:!hine work sas well as blacksmiths.
The blacksmith Hasn't so
bad because you can move a blacksmith and a foree and an anvil, but you can't
/
�move a machine shop and a foundry.
work at once.
So they set it all up and commenced to
Father was tryine; to get the boiler in place and get the engine
so it would do the work and there is a shaft overhead. with the machines
underneath and you pull a lever and the belt that is up top will turn the
machine you are working on.
This one shaft will turn all the machines, if
there is two rous, then there are two rows of shafts.
Well, father couldn't
get it up at once and there was such a need for it that father put a great
big iron thing which could fit 3 or 4 men and put it at the end of the shaft.
These men turned the shaft by hand to run these different machines.
Uhen
one was winded he would step out and another would take his place - and they
worked until all hours of the night because there was such a demand for
their work.
There was an old man in the shop and I remembered old Ned Hill
and he was always kept on and when I knew him he was old but he had the job
of just Imowing where everything was and he also turned the crank and a man
that endured that, father kept him on.
The other men had gone of their own
free will but Ned had a family and he stayed.
Woodside Iron Works.
That was the beginning of
There is really a great story of the beginning of the
shop, when they had the place set up, men uere married and had their homes the brothers, and then there was grand.mother and there was the three girls that
Here 13 yea.rs younger than the 6 boys.
So there were a lot of women and they
decided they would have a pink tea dmm at the shop to celebrate the opening.
Q.
What is a pink tea?
A.
It was called a pink tea in those days just for a little decoration I guess.
But the women had pink teas at church - we say they had teas nowadays - wHl
they added pink and gave it an air.
So they had a pink tea, they brought
cups and saucers and the baJdng and all arid the work stopped for a half hour
and they had pink tea to celebrate.
This brother who was in the other molding
room or shop as was the case, had cast a horseshoe, a little horseshoe.
There was a patten1 made of it in the pattern shop and then you put it in
sand - you have to see a foundry to know how it's done.
shoe for every woman there.
And he cast a horse-
As a child I remember that every kitchen had a
horseshoe with a li ttl e bit of - not canvas but anyway, yuu put a piece of
cloth on the back and you made this little pouch and it was a matchfolder.
I don't know where our's went, I don't know if my brother keeps it or not.
Anyuay, that was a souvenir of the opening of it and they had a lot of things
�like that, and they a.re really a story nowadays.
Q.
Could you tell me a little bit about your education?
A.
In p. A. we had the Central School which was the only school in the whole
city and then we had the high school which was the only school in the whole
district.
They came from Fort Frances a.rid Murillo if any of them wanted to -
I don ' t remember that any of them did though - and Fort William and Westfort.
They came to this four roomed high school.
Q.
Where i-ras it?
A.
It was where the gym is at the high school on the hill - P.A. C. I.
Q.
So they were quite close - the two schools.
A.
Yes and the high school was torn dmm and the big one built then, they added
the gym.
It was just four rooms and two teachers and finally they got a
woman teacher which meant three.
Q.
Do you recall what yea.:r that was?
A.
I don 't Imow.
Q.
But you were at school at that time?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did that cause any sensation?
A.
Of course most of the teachers were women but in the high school there had
just been the two men always.
That a woman was teaching?
Then I think this woman was buffeted around
by the two men but she stuck with it.
from the east.
Niss Achison was her name, she came
We had a e;reat many teachers who came from around Sarnia
because they could come direct by boat.
Q.
Has she a young woman when she came?
A.
She seemed young to me - she may have been JO.
And I think she taught history
and geography and the principal was a Scotchman who had taught boys ' school
in Scotland and why he came out here, I don't know.
Except that he drank
once in a while.
Q.
Perhaps he was just another black sheep that was shipped off?
A.
I don ' t lmow, but he was a very superior teacher.
The other man was l\'Ir.
Morgan and he taught physics and chemistry but he had learned German and at
the most unexpected time we would have a little lesson in German just when
the principal wouldn't know anything about it.
Everybody picked up a few
German words.
Q.
So you feel you got a ue2..l rounded education?
A.
Yes - . and a great many Hent to Toronto University which was something.
•
It
1
�would take on the part of the teacher, a lot of real teaching to get them
so ambitious as to go on.
Q.
Did you finish hieh school at all?
A.
In P. A . ?
Q.
Did they have Grade 13 at that time?
A.
T-J ell,
Yes .
they didn't have grades - in the public school it was the book - Junior
and Senior 1,2,3 and 4 and then in high school, I guess it was the year, 1,
2 and
Q.
J.
There was just the three years?
Hm1 old would you be if you graduated each
year you passed?
A.
I started school 1-1hen I was 4.
My father was chairman of the Board of Educ-
ation or a member of it, years and years.
This time they were short one
pupil to get the goverrrn1ent grant so they said, "Tom, you have lots of children, you can just spare one."
Well, I Has tall and big for
4
and so I was
sent to school and my aunt Ann, his sister, was the kindergarten teacher.
And she taught up to the end ofthe first book I guess.
So I was strorg and
nell and I uas just 10 or 11 uhen I Has in high school and I got through high
school and we had teachers college in P.A.
Q.
You became a teacher?
A.
Yes, for L~ yea.rs.
1h .
So I went through that and when I graduated I wasn ' t quite
And they couldn't Grant me a certificate, I was too young .
Q.
You had to lJe 21?
A.
You had to be 18, however they grru.1ted me a special dispensation and I went
down east to mother ' s old hqme ru.1d taught there for a year.
Q.
~Jhich town would this be?
A,
Out of l'ieai'ord, near Owen Sound.
Then I came back and because they bad done
this, allowing ne to teach, I was obliged to teach one year here, so I supplied in the different schools in P.A. -well, there was just the Central
School.
Then they built the south ward and I took the principals place, she
was sick or uent on a trip and I think that was when I was 16 that
principal of a south ward school.
But I was
5' 10½"
I .was
so they didn't argue
:'1ith me.
a.
Q.
This was
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
Because you went through teacher ' s college rather than normal school?
secondary school?
Yes - because they didn't have a normal school/
And you taught, married, raised your family - how did you become interested
�in becoming an historian?
~:
If you grew up here, naturally you saw it all happen so you couldn't ~elp
but be interested.
You might say I just stumbled onto it or grew into it.
Q.
It has become for you a career?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you look at it as more of a hobby?
A.
Hobby, yes.
Goodness, I hadn ' t time.
You raise a family - these women that
work and raise a family are braver than I.
Q.
How many children did you have?
A. ;
I raised 3 children, but I had a lot of company.
Q.
Company with friends or with your children?
A.
Both, and relatives - we had relatives all the way from Halifax to Dawson
City, and they all stayed on, on trips.
Q.
Hith both your career as a teacher and a historian, did you find any discrimination?
You mentioned that Miss Achison had a bit of trouble with the
men but you were able to hold your
A.
01-m?
Yes , but it was the first lady teach er and if any pupil had to stay aft er 4
she was delegated to stay too.
Q.
But you were the principal in the south ward - how many teachers were under
you?
A.
Just one - of course don ' t mention that - I was principal at 16.
That ' s
why I was young when I was teaching, because I started at 4.
Q.
Was this a lady teacher as well?
A.
Yes.
Q.
You would have had no experience between wage differential?
A.
My goodness, I think the teacher got $32 a month or so.
Q.
Regardless of whether you were a man or a woman?
A.
No, I guess the men got more because they were the principals and sub-principals and they had families - they would have to have more - but $32 and
$35,
There were some of the girls that had a special permit and taught,
that saved money and went on to university.
Q.
Was a teacher paid according to whether he was married or not?
A.
I think there was a set wage.
Q.
For a man or for a woman.
A.
Yes, but the man was al ways married and the woman wasn't.
Q.
This was before women were allowed to have a career after marriage.
A.
You didn ' t dream of anything after marriage, other than scrub bare floors
and scrub clothes - you hadn't time for ...
Q.
No married ladies taught, even if they didn't have children?
s
�A.
I don't think so.
They didn't here anyways.
There were widows - that was
Q.
different.
As a historian, I have come across some of your works which are extremely
competant and have you ever had any trouble with the - there is quite a few
male historians about kn-ocking anything you might have to say.
A.
I have never had any trouble because whatever I wrote I had printed myself
and they didn't consider me a full scale historian - I was just a woman that
was writing down a few things.
I don't know whether anybody wanted to have
any trouble with me or not but I never did.
Q.
A.
I wrote 3 booklets and I have
the .. ........... .
lfaat about the organizations and co-operation between women and their org-
anizations?
I really can't recall any dirty work, they seemed to have - well you can't
say they have worked together always because they haven't always. There
have been women - some girl teachers who came from down east who were stirring
the teachers up to go on strike, years ago.
Such things had never been
heard of - teachers going on strike - too bad because teachers have a wonderful influence on their pupils and they don't have an influence through
It sets them down a bit I think - for the pupils. :Bu:-:t I think
that this one that was the leader in all this, wasn't hired _in the second
year and things were done gently, they did.~'t have a fist fight.
What was her proposition? Hhat was she upset about?
Wages, and she was principally upset about it, everything that a strike would ...
So you felt your wages were high enough?
No, the wages were always low.
And yet, you would not consider strike action as the course to take?
Not ...
She was upset about wages, she was upset about what else, hours?
One thing they were upset about was that we weren't pr0ducing teachers of
our own and these teachers had to come from down east and of course, in those
days, the girls were very glad to get a position and so they came from Petrolia and Sarnia because it was close to the boat. So, one thing she was
going to strike for was that the Board of Education would pay their boat
fare here. There were people in the town who boarded teachers - they were
well cared for and were honored citizens in the churches and all were fine
strike.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
�women.
Some of the finest women we ever had are teachers,
~:
Can you recall, as a young girl, the suffragette movement being discussed?
A.
Yes,
Q.
Was there a suffragette organization withing Thunder Bay?
A.
Of sorts.
It wasn ' t very strong but of sorts.
The suffragettes had many
cartoons in papers of the suffragettes and I think some of them were accused
of wearing pants and you could be run in, you could serve a term if you appeared in pants.
It is not many years ago since my husband told me that I
could~..go to his tailor and order a tailored suit with pants - any material
or any cut - and he would pay for it.
He knew perfectly well that I would
never wear pants and out here it is just the kind of thing because it's cold
and keeps your ankles warm.
It's not so many years and now we don't think
anything of it at all.
Q.
Must have been auful hard washing long dresses and ...
A.
Yes , washed by hand.
Q.
After the suffragette movement of sorts, do you recall the organization that
also had something to do with that movement?
A.
Miss Black who was one of the first librarians in Fort William wasn ' t a
fighting suffragette but she was quite in favor of that.
Mary J. Black,
Q,
Unfortunately, all her people were lost when she went out to B.C.
A.
Yes, she had a brother that she went to when she was sick - before she died,
and I suppose like. so many people, they cleaned up everything thoroughly.
Q,
Too bad that she hadn't given evecy ...
A.
I suppose, like many people she was going to write it up herself.
Q,
I believe th?.,t the Homen 's Christian Temperance Union supported suffrage?
A.
Yes, they weren't fighting about it but ...
Q.
They gave support.
A.
Yes.
Q.
They sent petitions and endorsements.
A.
Mother believed and belong ea~ to the WCTU for years. We were a big family but
mother always had help - always had a maid and hadra washwoman, that came
Monday all day and Hednesday for a half a day.
That was the day when our
dresses and our underwear were washed but not the sheets or pillowcases.
That was once a week.
She was president of the Ladies Aid and a member of
the Mission Circle and the Miss WCTU and the Mother's____
Anyway,
mother went to that and the one thing I remember abo~t it - she came home
�and mother was the kind that she never looked for an argument, she was a very
wise, sw~et uoman, but this night ~he came home and we sat down .... had not
experience keeping house for a man and had no family and never did but she
undertook to tell the mothers how to bring up their families and Mrs. Dr.
Smelly had 8 and Mrs .. Neelan had 7 and they had big families and here(wRet
was this woman telling them how.
Q.
What sort of things was she recommending?
A.
How to dress your children and how you fed them an.d what you taught them and
everything - ;gh'e knew how.
answers.
These women with no children who knew all the
Mother and Mrs. Smelly talked it over and they agreed that they did
the best they could at the time.
Q.
To get back to the WCTU - you mentioned it in your book so I wonder - you have
never heard what happened to Ricobs or anything - nobody seems to know.
A.
Young fQlks organization - The White River Band - and we had the record books
for them but Dr. John Ritchie of Regina - he was a surgeon· there for years he is an uncle of Ken Ritchie the doctor in P.A..
A very fine man - well he
was secretar-J for years and years and he was a pure wit and his minutes you got there early so you wo:i.aldn 1 t miss John B's minutes, it was lovely.
So we had them - it had closed dmm for years and finally my sister sent them
to him and of course he wrote back - he was delighted - he said many of the
words he didn't know what· they meant but he had used them.
So that is were
that ·went, and as for the rest I don't know but Mrs. Hamlet -
Q.
I found several books in the library that were minutes.
One of the more
notable was a report of a social survey by the Department of Temperance and
Moral Reform in the Methodist Church.
a great amount of detail with it.
It is rather complete, they went into
TJas that a woman's organization or was it
just church members?
A.
I don't know for sure but I would say it was an organization within·__. the church
not necessarily all church officers.
Q.
What was it called?
The report was called the Preliminary and General Social Survey of Port
Arthur, March 1913, Directed by the Department of Temperance and Moral Reform
in the Methodist Church and the Board of Social Service and Evangelism of
the Presbyterian Church.
A.
So, you can take your pick there.
Q.
Yes, it is rather - so detailed, I was wondering if it had been a notable
organization.
�A.
Q.
A.
Well, I think it was like so many organizations that just are born and flourish
for a while and then go. They were doing good work in getting that written
down.
The statistics were very good.
In my letter I told you to contact Mrs. Hamlet who lives in Waverly Towers.
She is still
there is a little nuclei of the WCTU - she and her sister,
who is now in Westmount or Grandview in Fort William. Let me see, did she
die just lately? Anyway, Mrs. Hamlet will know - she•s a little birdie woman
Q.
a very nice woman, a widow.
I have noted on my studies of the English suffragettes - they were the prime
movers~ that they allied themselves with temperance movements, for the
rather obvious reasons. Nellie McClung was very closely allied with the
temperance movement. Although it wasn't a militant movement, literature was
circulated for women's rights and this went along with temperance, which was
A.
because women couldn't afford to ....
I don't think so, it was the same women largely in all organizations. King's
Daughters and all of these - oh, mother belonged to the K.D. or the Queen's
Daughters - it was the Queen's Daughters in Victoria's time and then it was
Q.
A.
the King's Daughters.
Could you explain the function of the Queen's Daughters?
It was an organization that fostered patriotism and when any noteworthy person
like a Govenor-General etc. came, the Q.D.looled after them and they had
meetings and showed the flag, like the Imperial Daughters - but they were
older women - younger than lots of the IODE.
Q.
It was just a patriotic formation.
There was also another book I came across - a report on the Local Council of
Women - The West Algoma Local Council of Women.
didn't you?
A.
No, I didn 't .
Q.
There was a Mrs. Dyke.
A.
It might have been my mother-in-law.
You convened that JO years
But I attended - I don't know whether
I held any office in it for q_uite some time. But I wasn't a leading light but I think my mother-in-law was and she was a member of a hospital aid before
the RMG hos pitaJ. was built and during which time, mother and Mrs. Dr. ~1Smelly
and Mrs. Neelson and Yi.rs. Mical. Quite a bunch of them that were very friendly and they enjoyed their friendship at these meetings and once the RMG
started - once a week they went to the hospital and mended the sheets and
pillowcases and towels. Mother always had a good maid, woman or girl, so that
�her children
were in e;ood hands and mother was up early so that in the a£ter-
Q.
noon she could go and bring word back of what they did.
This would be the ladies social contact I suppose because they didn ' t work
out of the homes. If you didn 't belong to an organization, you wouldn ' t go
A.
out very much.
Yes, that is so.
I did come across the minutes from 1894-1950 and I wrote a list of all the
Q.
proposals and the ammendments that the coucil had made for the wanen.
They
strongly pushed for women sitting on various boards, particularly the School
Board and in 1917 they wished to have at least two women appointed to the
Taxation and Organization of Homen Labor Boards. Although they were interested in hospitals, they seemed to have suggested - in 1930 a pre natal. clinic
in Port Arlhur - all sorts of things that women are still asking for. It
seems that they were thinking along feminist lines - did it strike you that
A.
way at the time?
That ' s why they organized - to have mightier say in things than they have had
before because they were supposed, just to run their homes and bring up
their children. And now they bancled together and asked for some things like
the RMG hospital. There was just St. Joseph ' s Hospital and women didn ' t go
to the hospital. to have their babies. The RMG hospital., the women urged that
until they got it and the primary idea was for it to be like a maternity
hospital. They had wards .and private rooms for maternity but it was RMG that was General, The Railway, Marine and General Hospital.
Well, in those
early days there was a great deal of typhoid, and they had a lot of typhoid
wards and men ' s and Nomen 1 8; And my oldest sister went to the RMG to have
her baby and there was a night nurse on for the men's typhoid ward - she crune
across the hall to ansuer the bells of the young mothers. To have a nurse who would be far more interested in gabbing all night with those men than
Q.
A.
bothering washing and scalding her hands before coming to the mothers and Eva
went home with typhoid fever.
Did she survive?
A.
She survived but she was ill for a long time.
The baby as well?
Yes.
Q.
They were both very lucky.
A.
Yes and lucky too there was a Scotch nurse - a married woman .
Q.
You see any
lO
�trained nurse was scarce and this woman married and came with her husband
to Port Arthur and someway, I think my brother-in-law knew them well enough
to have her come and look after Eva.
She was Scotch - trained and we had
very few trained nurses in those days.
That is what started the RMG - to be
Q.
a maternity hospital.
Were you also a member of the Women's Institute?
A.
No, that was a rural organization.
They made - two or three years ago - the
word went through all the institutes : "Have your district written up." and
Mrs. Oliver did it for Slate River.
Each area had it written up and I pre-
sume all those books and papers are kept at the headquarters.
Q.
We are having a difficult time extracting the Hymers book from a Mrs. Thatcher.
She has it and she is not giving it out.
A.
Q.
Well - and hasn't had it published yet?
No.
I know that the Women's Institute did some valuable things including
setting up libraries and providing rural women with what they needed - a
place to go and be with other women. The council is more politically orientated - was there any tension between the two or did you co-operate?
A.
I don't recall any tension.
Q.
A.
Was there any co-operation between the two groups for projects?
Some.
Q.
Can you give me the areas?
A.
Q.
I just have the feeling.
Did you hear of the Dominion Women ' s Franchisement Association?
They did
change their name to a much easier one which was the Canadian Suffrage Association.
I talked to Mr. Russell Brown and he said he remembered but he
couldn't remember anything about the suffrage movement other than they wore
pins.
A.
They tried to be militant to stir themsel~es up and to head up a slight war
but they never got that far. Each strove a little bit and all together they
have got some very good things for women.
Q.
After looking at the minutes I am findin 6 so many things that we are still
fighting for. Looking back, do you think we have changed very much?
gotten anywhere?
Have we
A•
They have really done very well. Slowly and without making big distresses.
They quietly accomplished a good many things.
Q.
Have you got something that you had worked on then, that is still not an accomplished feat, that you would very much like to see happen?
\l
�A.
I don't think I can pull that one out of a hat. Because there ar~ so many
things that they just have quietly gotten. Nellie McClung - she used to come
and speak.
Q.
A.
Her father-in-law was Presbyterian.
She came to speak here?
In P.A. and F.H.. The men loved Nellie McClung, she was witty.
I used to go
with father, and to hear her speak in the evening, there was lots of laughs
in it.
Q.
A.
She was very diplomatic and very kindly but she made a point.
lfas she an inspiration for you?
Yes and she had some experience with liquor and so she was out and out for
WCTU.
I remember her speaking in the Presbyterian church in Port Arthur -
St. Paul's - and there would be as many men as women because she was worth
going to hear and you quite agreed with what she had to say because she put
it quite nicely. She spoke this evening and I think there was some big ~ I
don't suppose it was a war, but something was on and the Archbishop of Canterbury had said that he couldn ' t do without his wine because it helped his
digestive system and stomach do it ' s work.
And the way she would state it
and she had a little twinkle in her eye and everybody was laughing about this.
The Archbishop uasn ' t an out and out prohibitionist, he liked his wine.
was a very fine woman.
She
She went west - her father-in-law was one of the
earliest ministers in P.A. - Methodist, because Robert McClung, who she married
taught a Sunday school class of boys as a minister's son was expected to do.
My aunts were all teachers and my grandmother taught the Bible class and my
uncle was a Suuday school superintendant, and his wife played the organ in
church.
These were unrilly boys that Bob Mcclung was teaching.
young man, 19 or so,
He was a very
Hell they would sit around him with their row of chairs,
heads tight together listening to him.
And they discovered that he had a copy
of Robinson Crusoe in a Bible cover and he was reading that to them and they
just~ loved him and loved his stories.
Nellie went west to teach in those
early days and she fell so in love with Mrs. Mcclung and there was a young son
and she was so disappointed because if she could marry a son, she would be
Mrs. McClung's daughter-in-law.
To her great amazement and joy, this bo:;y sh(n1red
up one time - he was a druggist - and here was a ready-made son of her own age.
So she said that she - well, she would say it of course - she simply said her
cap and he couldn't get out of it.
So they married.
led a great deal and was acclaimed wherever she went.
She lectured and travelShe was well-known and
one time she heard that her husband was objecting to her being away so much
\2
�without telling her.
So she went home and she had been honored in Toronto and
Ottawa and he felt she was getting beyond him so when she got there in the
evening and they had tea, she said to him, "Would you please pass.the brown
bread?".
That was the staple food, brown bread, and she wanted him to under-
stand that she was still staple.
So it went on from there.
She loved Mrs.
McClung and Mrs. McClung loved her, more than any of her own children.
Q.
Was she treated well by the papers here?
A.
Yes, wherever she went.
Q.
Did they print up any of her speeches?
A.
Oh, yes.
Q.
So, if I go through the microfilm - you don't know the years she was here?
A.
No, I couldn't tell you .... If you just get up and give dates and times, it
just bores you to death.
I see you have read "Plane Down" , that story in there.
It is pure fiction but this is the house they crune to.
They came in that door
tumbled down their goods there, and went into the livingroom and we made fires
in the kitchen and the back shed still has the great woodpile.
Ann Caaslet,
the Dickinsons were really pioneers, her great grandfather ran - r·don ' t know
whether it was the first paper published in P.A.
e
His granddaughter is Mrs.
Ann Causelet and she lives in this cottage where old Captain Marrin lived,
Ann Dryna - my mind went blank, what was I going to say about Ann Dryna?
,a/,.
'· 1 e
A.
. .... Oh yes, that "Plane Down" and they have been here for ever and ever and
were talking about Nellie McClung.
Ann speaks very slowly.
morning.
She lives back again in F.W. and she phoned this
She said, "Mother and I have racked our brains trying to think of
the year that plane mishap and we can't remember it at all.
pen?"
When did it hap-
I said, "Imagine, have I convinced you?•, "Convinced me of what?".
"That's pure fiction" and she said, "You told it too well, we thought it was
true,"
Q.
You have been very active in women's organizations all your life, and so has
your mother.
A.
How do you feel about the women's oganizations now?
I'm stric~ly a temperate woman, Father called it the "accursed stuff" because
he had such trouble with th.e,~:men, especially the foundry men.
fines and hauled them out and got them back to work.
He payed their
He and mother were
strictly temperate and one thing I o1;>ject to is that these organizations now there is wine and cheese - well, it doesn ''t seem to dawn on them that they
don't need to have this wine and cheese business but they think they've got
to do like some of the others do.
There are other less outstanding things
�that they are also embracing and it used to be that now the Canadian Club was
a splintered organization, it was for the most part made up of cultured,
educated women, and I don't say that they aren ' t educated now, but I don't
like some things and I feel that the women ' s organizations should stand forth
for the best in Canad.a and you can't bring up children to avoid alcohol if
you belong to these organizations that serve it and take it.
to be on one side or the other.
didn't need it.
You have got
We didn ' t serve it and we didn ' t miss it and
And then, after all, women have a place that is separate
from men and women are dressing like men and their doing so many things that
men do,
Q.
Do you mean working?
A.
No, I mean in every way.
For example, car racing and boy, the women are driving
the cars along with the men.
They have to do with all the sports.
Q.
You think that 's wrong.
A.
I think the men like them to be women.
Q.
Nellie HcClung had a saying:
We were t~J.king to a woman who preferred to have
her coat taken off and the doors opened etc. and Nellie McClung referred to
that once as "wantin 0 to eat the icing rather than the cake."
And that goes
right along with her brown bread saying, where yoy. have to be recognized for
your ability, and whether they open the door or ill.at shouldn't stand in the way.
To me, this is the goal I 'm trying to work towards, and I think a lot of other
women that I work with would agree with me on that.
It is the cake that I
would rather eat, you get too many cavities eating icing - too many holes in
it.
Do you have a daughter?
A.
Yes, in California.
Q.
Do you think that it is a better life for her than it was for you?
A.
It was pretty rugged and we didn't know it because it was where we lived and
what we were used to.
They have sidewalks and roads now that you can go
without going down to the axle and in my day, in Fort lilliam especially.
we have coveniences now in the house and travel etc.
And
Yes it is much easier.
I was telline; somebody of a classmate of mine who got to P.A. from the States
and came to high school.
I don't know how she got to P.A. and her father had
died and her mother was lecturing for something.
She and her brother and, I
don't know how they jerked themselves up but anyway they both got to P.A ..
She was poor and had no ml':biley or \~achl.ng
worked her way.
but she got up to Collegiate and she
She got up for this English woman who had 2 girls and she
�washed and dressed them and got them breakfast and eot them to school and
did the beds and dishes and left the house tidy - to come to school herself.
I didn't think she paid and as for clothes, she gave her her cast-off clothes
and this woman was two sizes smaller than Lula and Lula I remember had no hat
so she wore a bonnet every winter and it was all she had.
jolly well take· h er with a bormet or leave her.
And you could
She went through public
school and went to the teachers college which we had for a few years and then
she went up the line to teach and married the first man that asked her.
hadn't had a home, so just to have a home.
about him.
She
She wasn ' t asking the man much
He had a farm but it had been bun1t over and when I saw her after
some years of marriage, her hands were like horns - she was still using this
burnt over wood and she had 5 children and somebody said "one every Friday" .every year, anyway. Her husband wasn't interested except to feed them - that
was his duty done.
She wanted them to have an education so she sewed and she
proclaimed herself a barber and then she got a second hand chick hatchery an incubator - and turned one of the two bed.rooms she had into an incubating
• room and hatched chickens and sold them around the district.
tomatoe plants and sold them and sent her children to school.
Then she raised
Then they had
to go into town for the hi¢gh school - her oldest daughter went first and
she got babysitting - had a room but I don't think her board, but did that
and it was enough to bring her cash.
Then she went home Friday night and
her mother did the s~wing, washing and ironing, fixed her up on Saturday and
then she came back Sunday night and brought a big basket of food. Her brother
was ready for hig9.school and they just put a sheet up in her room with a
bed on each side and she managed the food for them.
He eventually became a
teacher and she trained in HcKellar Hospital and she had the money that they,
paid the girls - $2.50 a month or $J.OO and if she broke a thermometer, it ~as
a disaster and she had clothes her mother made out of old clothes. Stockings
and those button - on shoes was all she had and she learned like her mother:·
that was what she had and she wore •-il and she was thankful.
denims so she could go hiking with the girls.
RMG and had a bad time.
Had a pair of
The next girl went into the
The matron didn ' t approve of her - a poor girl in the
class with some of the girls that had more - so she dismissed her on the first
pretext she could find and she herself was dismissed for cilsmissing the girl.
They all managed and were splendid children.
How many are doing that nowadays?
\S
�If they haven't silk stockings and all the rest of it, they sit down and howl
at the moon, but these youngsters didn ' t.
Q.
I feel sorry for the girl you went to school with who married the first man
who caJ.11e along to get a home and live with a man - probably not a very happy
life.
A.
Oh, I'm sure, but she wouldn't cheep, there would be no squabbling, she made
her bargain and she kept it.
Dad finally died and he had a thousand dollars
life insurance in some organization - very little.
Now that is five $200 ' s
well the youngest girl had died so there were four and she was the fifth so
they each got $200 and that was just touching the •::louds.
She came to F. W.
and two or three times she came representing the Women ' s Institute and they
would pay her way down and then she would stay with me and she told me "I
just went on a regular binge, I bought an electric iron and an electric kettle"
and then she bought enough black silk or rayon and a neighbor helped her make
a dress and a jacket and she had $.50 left and she put it in the bank - so she
had a bank account.
The others - it was spent the same Hay - had to give a
good account of every nickel.
She died long since and at Christmas time I
write one of her daughters and this daughter - her son and another boy in the
neighbqrhood were going to play PeeW ee hockey in F. W. , so they stayed with ll!e.
Youngsters love to see through a house so when they had been there a little
while .I suggested that the boys go on and look through the house and see everything.
One youngster went home and I guess he nadn 't been in a big house
before and he told his mother all the details - the furniture, what they had
on the beds, how they took a bath . in the bathtub.
He is now a grown man and
married long::::since but she still gives me a little of his history and she
and her sister were fine women and well thought of in the community and the
one boy is a teach er and the other is head of the highways in Kenora and I
don't knou whether he is still there or whether he is retired or not.
They
have always accepted any help - so nicely - no embarrassment, just thank-you
very much.
Q.
Uas there any help for a woman uho wanted to leave her husband - perhaps if
he physically beat her or the children?
Has there anyone she could turn to
if she had no family?
A.
1
tfell, they turned to the church and the minister and his wife.
went into housework - that was her refuge.
Of course, she
�Q.
Would she be able to take all of her children?
A.
If there Here children that would be different.
Q.
She would have to put up with it.
A.
Q.
Yes, many of them did.
A.
There was often a ver-J nice neigbor map. who would beat the daylights out of
This is one of the things we are still trying to work on.
him - which he well deserved.
Q.
I asked an Italian lady in Italy what a wife would do if the husband beat her
and she said that generally they never moved from the original village and
she had her brothers protect her.
It would take on<f.'•• thump and generally he
got the message.
A.
There was an early priest - Father Baxter in P.A.
He was a great big burly
man and if he heard of any man that had been beating his wife, he ' d talrn off
his clerical black gown, "nightg0vm" as they called it, and he ' d just give
him such a thrashing that he wouldn't forget it.
Many a man stopped beating
his wife when he had a beating from Father Ba,'Cter.
He came out here in the
early days and said mass and that white house down there is built on the old
foundation of the old Catholic church - the Sellars live in it.
quite a family of them.
in the Lakehead.
There was
They were the early elevator people and grain pe ople
Hr. Al Sellars bought it but it was in such disrepair and
it was finally torn down and then the foundation was. remade and he built the
same size on thesame foundation.
It was during the years I was away from
Silver Islet that it was finished so it took some arguing on Ethel Sellars '
part to convince me that it wasn ' t the old Catholic Church.
Q.
Do your remember WWI?
A.
Yes. '
Q. ·
I am a history teacher - do you remember after the Har, in your experience,
if the attitude towards working women changed much?
A.
Yes, it commenced a change because the women had irnrked so hard during the uar.
Q.
At jobs that a lot of people didn ' t think they could do.
A.
1-J ell,
Q.
Did it progress further after WH2?
A.
Yes and after WWI and especially after WW2, the people had learned to go out
there were more stenographers and bookeepers and things like. that .
and enjoy themselves and people had learned to leave their children and go out.
They took their families lightly to what they had been before,
A mother wouldn ' t
\7
�leave her children and go gabbing.
They think nothing of leaving them and
they can pretty much bring up th ems elves, the youngsters.
Q.
Do you see no discrepancy between a woman hiring a girl t.o feed her children
breakfast and lunch and do their clothes and send them out to school, even
though she lives withinl. the house, to women who have to use daycare centres
to do the same thing? ·no you see much of a difference?
A.
Of course daycare - Miss Michaels has now set up her evm school in the Salvation Army Eall and has the daycare.
That is a real profession.
She has
a real degree and education.
Q.
The point I ' m getting at is the effect on the children,
Why would it be more
acceptable to have a girl living in your home to do that?
A.
Because they are home - that's the only differ-~nce.
These daycare centres,
where the girl has to Imow a lot and the child must learn a lot.
Q.
Yes, they are very careful with them.
A.
There was a couple married in Hesley Church a11d they were quite active, they
were both teachers.
They had a child and they didn't show up again and it
was some time before one of the ladies went to call and found that· this
beautiful little girl baby had an enormous head - it was terrific.
There
nas something wrong with the children a11d so from that, they banded together
and Wesley let them have a room and they met every mon1ing uith a different
mother looking after these 5 or 6 children.
It meant a holiday for the mother
-l~ days a week and 5 mothers, and 5 children and they did simple ~ai.11es and
things and looked after them and the mother would be refreshed and rested.
I went d01m for about 26 years.
I was the relief officer - that is an at-
tendant to the second-hand clothing and people would come to my house, I had
a trunk that was never empty and never full. ....... I would then send overseas twice a year there were greatshipments.
I" remember one time .we sent 850 lbs.
a.nd that is a lot to pack a.nd Hr. Gerr'iJ would come and help us rope and the
McKenzie dray came and took it, shipped it, a11d paid tho shipping charges and
just charged us for the shippinc charge - they never charged us for their
dray and went on for years and yea:cs ... I would often be at the church in the
morning~ after school and these children - the little girl with the great big
head, I don ' t know how she held it up - it must have taken a long time to get
it
O
o
I•
Q.
How long did she survive?
A.
I think she was 9 or 10 when she finally died.
shapen and mongoloid.
The others, they were mis-
I always stopped and talked to them and told them a
story, so that they got to know me.
l3
�•
Q.
A.
Aft er the war, when ladies had been working in factory jobs and that sort of
thing, when their husbands came home, did they expect them to go back to the
way they had been? What sort of conflicts Callle from the change?
They expected it. Women often went out without any squabbling, they get their
own way and they had more money than they had ever and they weren ' t going to
give that up right away.
Q.
A.
So there was difficulty.
The majority of women
stayed with their husbands.
And the husbands learnt to live with liberated women?
It wasn't so easy for the men to get jobs and there are a few sensible men
that would see that their wives really had to bring in the bread and butter
and they had to work at home themselves.
You saw quite a few, but also you
saw the one that wasn ' t going to have it.
going to stay so.
ironed out.
He was king of the castle and was
That was the unfortunate few but it is wonderful how many
There was one English girl that came out - the men came home
first - well they sent the women home first - anyway, she was-______
and she married and Indian from the mission over here and in England they are
not so concerned about the color of their skin as we are.
them marry from the Near East - red and brmm skin.
A great many of
One of our ta,-ximen was
at the station and this girl came to him and wanted to be taken to the mission,
and he was shocked. She was a fine looking :I!nglish girl, so he said "Are you
sure that is the right address?"
She had married a native Canadian and was
going to stay with his people until he got here.
H2 very nicely tried to
persuade her not to but she was going - he took her for quite a long ciistance
and then you turn up tolthe reserve and he said he noticed that her chatter
ceased when he turned up because it was pretty crummy in those days, they've
decent houses now. He told her that this was the house and he told her he
would wait and for her togo to the door. So she did and a big, fat, very unclean looking squaw came to the door - the mother of this boy she married.
She just threw up her hands and came back to the taxi and said for him to
take her away from there.
He told her he knew and had tried to tell her but
he decided she had better see for herself.
He told her he would take her to
his house or to the Salvation Army, 1-1hichever she wanted and she could get
help from the Red Cross to go back home.
She chose to go to the Salvation
Army and reported to the Red Cross and they came and helped her.
went right back home.
She just
They would have been marrying boys from all the colonies
so she ..... now they are very fine, smarl Indian men that are working on the
highways and worki:pg at machines.
They've had a tough time, our native people.
/9
�.,·
•
Q.
A.
We have a lot to account for.
They used to scalp people and shoot them down with arrows and burn them and
do all kinds of things.
If we had a hoard of p~ople come in and take over
our country - they had it for thousands of years - of course they ' d fight.
Q,
As far as scalping goes, it was white men that taught the Indians - they used
It was easier to bring in a scalp, they thought of ears for
a while but a guy could bring in two different ears and say they were ears
from one person and so, the scalps.
A.
More power to them - fight for their land. If somebody crune along and put
me out of this house, .....
Thank-you for your help Mrs. Dyke,
it for bounty.
l.C
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herstory: Gertrude Dyke
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Mrs. Gertrude Dyke in Port Arthur, Ontario. The interview was performed by Helen Lovekin as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project.
The recording consists of two sides each of two cassette tapes, available here as four MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnails.
During the interview, Mrs. Dyke recalls the social and working conditions of Northern Ontario in the early 20th century, focussing on the education system, her personal historical interests, regional terrain, temperance movements, local businesses, community and personal relationships, and the activity of women.
Please note that this tape includes discussion of settler-Indigenous relations, using language that would not be seen as sensitive or appropriate today.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Audio
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Port Arthur
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[197?]-06-27
Subject
The topic of the resource
People
Women's History
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/79630ad785398a7e59b9e383198bf04a.mp3
cdd2e0ebe12d13522e5d5261409b8682
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/7b179231a7fefa86caffcf00447fd13b.mp3
0455cc167b52cfe671307d8395e7a5c4
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/576834165824b3246194eaefd851dd83.pdf
202dd21a22ed240f6233e34f99926306
PDF Text
Text
/
!
/ (-~
This is
,
Kanen Graves(?) talking with Mrs. Almos in Port Arthuro
G:
At
G:
A:
G:
A:
Could we start by telling me what year you were born?
1913
And where were you born?
I was born in a little CPR siding, called Melgand.
Where is that?
Now this would be, Oh, I don't know, past, well half way
between here and White River, I think, on the CPR Mainline.
My dad was a CPR pumpero This was when they had the steam
etiginjs, and they had to take water, you know,every so manyo
And¼::here we moved to Cauldwell; he was a pumper there,
and then from there, when I was about four, we moved to
Jackfish, and he was a stationary fireman there. They took
coal in for the docks, the CPR dock there,for the trains,
and he worked there till the deasel came in, and then they'
did away with the coal, natµrally,then he was.o. No I'm
wrong. They did away w~+h bringing it in from the States
~ by _boat, and brought it from, from the eh, provinces,
somewhere, by CPR boxcar, and it had to be unloaded by
boxcar, so they didn't need anymore fireman or anything
li like this, see, to keep things going,to unload the coal, so
he was transfered to a place called Britto
G: That sounds familiar.
A~ - That's down, oh, around Perry Sound, and there he stayed
until he retired.
G: Did you move with him?
A: No, I married, and stayed in Jackfish.
G: Had your parents been born in Canada, or were they immigrants?
A: No. My grandparents came from Scotland as Hudson's Bay
factors, up to Moosonee, and my Dad's family was all born
there. And they came down to, by canoe, to, where is it now,
the CPR anywayo And then just scattered around. My grandfather on my mother's s.ide had a store in Heron Bay. And
the rest of the family fished; on~ uncle had a fishing and tourist
business in McDermod. And the others were mostly railroaderso
G: What do you remember as a child growing up in a small town?
A: Well, I don't know. We weren~t very rich, we were a big
family; eleven of us, twelve of us.
G: Twelve kids?
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
Uhm uhm.
Really!
Eleven, and adopted my mother's, be more like a nephew to me,
but he was adopted, because his mother and dad had passed away.
And I don't know, we just seemed to have enough of what we
needed. We never had to go without anything~but we didn't
have any frills, that's for sure. But I think we were much
happier then, than the children these dayso
You appreciated things I guess.
Everything just handed to them, ayh? ' What we got we really
appreciated. An~ we had to work, you knowp I worked from
the time I was~urteen, for, ten dollars a month, I thinko
Doing what?
Well, I went to help this, he was, Mr. ~ Nichol was the
station agent, the gas station agent, there. And she needed 6: \. ~~
somebody in the sunnner, because she had so much company an~1/~0 ~VV
that. So I just went and, as a cl-, like a girlc;-~ a y h o
~ .
And, that's about all. Went to school until graoeeight,
J
and
How big a school was it?
Pardon me?
How big a school was it?
It was •:up to grade eight. It was from one, there was no
kindergarten, ~ rom one to eight ayho And there was just the
one teach~r~~ ;.._b,.we had very many happy memories there, because
there wasl concerts, and field days, that kids have never
heard of, these dayso Arbor d~y, I asked the kids if they
had Arbor day. "What's that Nanny?" And, I don't know ._~
This was the centre of activity, the school and the church,
ayh. The c~urch, once a month, there was two churcheso So
everybody ~fo the, and the Salvation Army cam~ probably once
every two months. And strange, I do quite a bit of volunteer
�-2-
""~
work, and I do a lot for Home League, or~with them alot. And they
knew all these Captains, and that, that came to Jackfish, like
60 years ago.
G: What would they have come for?
A: The Salvation Army?
G: Yes, this is the first I've heard of this.
A; Oh, well, just for a service.
G: Counselling type?
A: No, just a church -- o., meeting at night, you know. And,
everybody would bring a lunch, and we'd have a little
gathering after. This one chap, especially. He came from
the Yukon, and I just heard recently, through a ~
Home League here, that he died in Californiao OThese are
just the little things that we'd look forward to. We were
fortunate enough that we had a pass, and relatives, that we
could travel. Where a lot of the other children didn't
ayh, we could go free, we had relatives in Saskatchewan and
Manitoba and that. So we were able to goo•• My dad took us
pretty often for a trip to Toronto and Montreal if we could
afford it. But then I married, and we lived there, it was ,,,
I was just saying, some girl came here the other day, said
she was tired because she washed the clothes. I said oh,
what kind of machine do you have? Well, an automatic, ahy.
I said''what if you do like me when Don was, we had one boy,
and one still-born child. When ~,Don was small, my husband
was a railroader too, so he had to go out and relieve on the
different jobso And in the winter I had to snowshoe down a
hill like about Hillcrest Park, and snowshoe back up with
the water to wash clothes. And I said, "And you push a
button, and you're tired? And when my brother-in-law wasn't
home, I had to chop the ice, to make a hole in the water,ayho
Sometimes it was pretty thick in that bay. And then I'd come
up and wash clothes on a board. So, when I look back now, I
think, 0 dear, I woT\der how you ... My neighbour across here,
she was raised on -Me. farm too. She said I wonder how weJ<l.id
it ayh. We sit back~ nd wonder and really, you know, Jhat .. o
But like I say, I think we were much happier then than now
that you could ... I know when I go down town now and, we
were married during the depression, and when I go down town
now and think "Gee I wonder if I should, maybe I'll buy
this. Do I need it?" That's a throw back from the
depression. So it seems strange that life goes on s·o •
G: What kind of social things did you do, say in your m_a_r_r~i_e_d_
years? Community dances, and things like this?
A: Oh yes. We used to have pie socials,to raise money for the
Christmas fund. And bingos, later on we had bingos. But
mostly it was, oh, teas, church teas, and pie socials, and
cake socials. And what else now, ohJ then we used to have snowshoe
parties. We'd all get together to snowshoe out to
a certain, everybody had a little, tracking camps, like, you
know, and you'd make beans out there, have beans and that.
Like I say, I was one of the more fortunate ones, Art always
had a job, and we had a free pass, so every year of our life
we've always had a holiday. Even if it was, I know !'! come
back often, with just enough to tip t~e porter ayh. Or
maybe not even that, but we had our pass, and we knew we
could get home without any money ayh. But every month, I'd
put away maybe even sometimes 50 cents to a travelling fundo
And when our holiday came, well that was our money, and
when that was spent, we came home.
G: That's an interesting way to travel.
A: But other than that, like, and ... I think the teacher was
the head of the social, like you know, she put on the
Halloween dances and ...
G: Would these all be held in the school?
A: Yes. At one time we had no ibasement in the school, so it
was quite a chore to, our seats were on two by fours, and
we had to pull them all out, you know. So the, I can't
remember, they must have got a grant or something, and
they ... I was married then, when they put the basement in
the school, and this was were we held all our socials, such
as our ...
G: How large a community?
A: Pardon me?
G: How large a community?
A: I would say about 35 families. And of course, during the
summer the Patterso, you know, these freighter folks, they
�-3would come in with coal for th~ ... It was the only industry there,
was the coal industry, for the CPR, for the engine'S. And it seems
every time a boat came in, they'd put on a dance of some kind,and
they'd let us know, and we'd put a sig~ up, and the ladies would
bring a lunch, or the boat would bring Q 'lunch. So, pretty nearly
every week we' d have a danc·e.
G: Then this would be with the people who worked on the boat.
A: This was with the, yes, with the Captain and the mates would
put it on, like, you see, and everybody that was free~.Rn the
boat would come. I guess they'd been out on th~i ~~e~a week,
ten, twelve days, and they were happy to get some~recreation.
At one time we had a pool room there, and that was part of
the, you know, they played pool. But that closed down, too.
wheA we built our own skating rink and looked after it. We
played hockey between Rossport,and Schreiber, and Jackfish.
G: Did you seem to have been a lot more sports minded, a
little more active1
A: Yes. There didn't seem to be any cliques. Everybody seemed
to get together. Then we bou•ght, there was a general store
and the Post Office, and Immigration Department thereo And
we had that, we looked after that, til the placed closed up.
G: So that would be an office to receive benefits?
A: Well, no. The officer had to come here to clear the
American ships. You see, the American ships came in, and
they had a clearance before they go out. So that office was
in the store too, the general store, and the Post Office.
So then when that closed down, when Jackfish closed down,
my husband got a job as a, went out on the road as, he was 7
of course he's an engineer, this was what he did in Jackfisho
But it was more like a~_ ~mergency; he was sent anywhere from
Fort William to, oh~~~crwthe Sioux, to Ottawa, to Mattawa, and
anyplace that they needed him, ayh. So we lived, we had our
own car on the railroad, and we lived there for seventeen
years.before we retired. So that was an interesting way to
live. I know one weekend,one middle of the week, we were
in Rossport, or just out of Rossport, and (interrupted by phone)
So whatf was I saying?
G: You were talking about living on the rail
A: Oh yeah. We were up near Rossport, about Tuesday, and they
said to Bart, "Get ready, there's a train picking you up, and
they're going to stop at White River, and get your groceries,
and you've got to keep going til you get to Mattawa, for the
weekend." Because they were building an overhead bridge, and
you can only do it on a weekend. It was things like this that
made it so interesting ...
G: So you just took up your car and,.o
A: Well, the train picks us up, ayh. We were on the railroad,
like a, like a trailor ayh. And a train would pick us up
and the machine that Bart worked with, ayh, and take us all
the way down along. And wherever we were, like if we came
into a divisional point, where there's a train waiting for
us to take us out, so we'd get there in time~ So you never
knew what the next job was going to be.
G: I guess, you said you just had the one son?
A: Yes, and when Bart took this job out on the railroad, he had
just started high school here, so he was up here like,you see.
And when we were close to home, close around here, he'd come
there for the weekend, and if we weren't home, he'd go to
Jackfish to his grandmother'so So we were there for eighteen
years.
G·: You said you were married during the depression. How did
the depression affect you?
~ ------- r , I think we were very fortunate because on the job that
tiart was, a hoisting engineer's job. In the winter they just
had , maybe eight or ten staff, or twelve. And they had .\o ~<.,'-le.
time keeper. And none of them could do office work. None
of thot+older men, even if they had more seniority than Bart,
they couldn't do the office work, with the result that he
was never out of a job. As small wages as he had,we were
fortunate; we never lost our insurance, or our house or
anything like that. So many of our friends did ayh. Other
than having to be very careful,you know, make sure that you
didn't go off on a buying spree, or somethingo
~d
(}..
�-4-
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
-
G:
A:
Did it affect Jackfish, particularly bad?
Not too much. Most of the people there were, I would say
have permanent positions, they would be, like section men,
and in the wint~er, like section men, and then th~v had to
keep this plant going, because they had to keep a. coal
shute going to keep the coal eh, ready to coal all these
trains, all these ... So it was more of a steady thing,
except in the stnnmer they brought in these extra men to
help with the unloading of the coal for the winter. But
we were very fortuna..te.
• -~
There was nobody, I ~~bink, out ot work in Jacktisn ouxing
the depression, because of this CPR coaling station, see.
Maybe the junior fellas on the way, like on the track were
laid off, but pretty well it didn't affect them at all. But
all around us, terrible. I know friends of ours that had
lost their homes and their insurances, and things like this.
Did you get a lot of people travelling through on the railway?
Oh yes.
men in the box ...
Boxcars, yes, yeah. In fact there was some of that still
when we went on the roado Cause they warned me, I was often
alone, you k~ow, out on the siding,and they said not to let
anybody in. ~~ t ~is was not like the depression,! think it was
just those who were travelling more just to see the, the,
cause it was during the war when we were out there, so there
was lots of work.
How did the war affect you?
Pardon me?
How did the war years affect you?
Ahh, not ...
I guess things became a little more prosperous?
Yes, yes. Well I know when uhm, when Bart went out on the
railroad, when we were in Jackfish, there was no union. So
he would have to go, he went to work at seven every morning.
And if that company, boat company, wanted that boat unloaded
for a certain hour, he would have to work, all those hours,
maybe sometimes up for 5 o'clock the next morning. And he
never got paid for more than eight hours, ayh. So as soon
as he went out on the railroad, on the, on the mainline, he
was able to join a union, and he did, and I could never get
over him being paid, in fact, this was how we bought this
house. All the overtime that he made, I put it aside,
because I said "If we, you know, this is just money found,
because you'd never have it, if you didn't have this job."
So this is how we put money away to buy this house. Because
if you travelled, at night, with the crane, then he had to
look after it, and he was paid for it. And if there was a
mainlinefl and the mainline was busy, then they would have
to wait maybe til after 5 o'clock, or 6 o'clock, til the
trains were all gone, then go out, and he was still paid.
And I can remember my son was, it was during the war, they
couldn't get a helper, so the boss asked Bart if he didn't
know anybody. So Don said he'd go out. And I can remember
the first day Don worked, he had to go out an hour ahead,
at six, to get the crane ready, and they couldn't go out til
8 o'clock that night to work, cause the passengers were late (?),
it was a mainline job. He made 42.50 that one day. I can
remember his dad saying, "This was what I made in a month
when I started to work". So it was quite a, it was quite a
thing to be able to get paid for what you did. But, and
that job in Jackfish, we were paid for eight hours only, no
matter how, and you couldn't refuse, ayh. Especially Bart.
He was the only who could do this certain job. He had a
helper, but he couldn't work when there was men, they
emptied these boats of coal, well when they got near the
bottom, there
had to go men in there to scrape it up and
-•~~ put it irlZ0 the bucket so they could get it upo Well the
(ljfa"'. _
~ helper couldn't do that, because they were scared th~-'-=d-- ~ ✓0
swing the bucket maybe, and kill someone o So Owhei:l there
was a cleaning job, Bart had to do it all. There was two
of them, like two cranes, but they had to do all that worko
Was there any talk there of organizing a union?
They tried. But, this was the way they got around it.
There wasn't enough, uhm, steady members, like. I think
�-5there had to be ten or~welve. And the CPR made sure that
_
they, (joke and laughter), but the
company made sure that they got, you know, that they were
kept below that. The steady ones, like, you know. They
could have in the SUllllller, but then these were just men that
came in for, maybe three or four rr. Jnths, so that didn't
count. This is how I think I, I have never voted anything
else but social, NDP or, please be careful whatever you
~all it. Because this was when you heard all about it
during the depression, ayho And I can remember, uhm,
Jack MacEvett, he was organizing, ayh, in Schreiber. He
said"I've gone out in the country and preached", and he
said "I had to be in a truck, because they'd throw tomatoes
at me", ayh, or eggs or anything, if they didn't like him.
And I can remember the first, uh, convention I went to in
Regina
I said to Mrs. Jacobson, " I
never thought I'd
ever see the day when I'd be coming to Regina, in a hotel
for an NDP convention, ayh, the way it started out, because
I know many a time I did without things to, to help
<-·calm down there, like, you know, the people that came in _e,v~ )
they always came to our place to sleep, or eat or anythi11g.
Mr. uhm, what's his name (\t,~Tate, he's an old timer,
Jim Caullie, I was just reading about him the other day, and
Jack MacEvett, of course, he was from Schreiber, and uhm,
there sure was a lot of talk of; you know, political talk
during the depression, and I think this was
for,
because, uhm, when yo,, looked around and saw what was
going on, these guys working for five dollars a month, I
think,on the highway. So, uh ... Oh yes, I think the whole
of Jackfish was, was CCF then.
G: I've been studying Dorion and Hurkett a lot, and that was
a really progressive ....... town during the depression
too.
A: Yeso I think all these little towns, you know, that really
uh, it hit them quite hard.
G: I guess soo Uhm, I wanted to ask you about the early days
of CCF. Did you ever think that it would become sort of
a credible third party at the time?
11
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
A:
A:
N .•
Did it start off really
really small?
I
Uh ...
See I don't ...
Oh yes, like I say, I can remember, especially down
our
way, because uh, oh there was so many other factions
against it, ayh. Strong factions, that people were afraid
to, to even talk about it, in lots of places, ayh. Uh,
and I really can't remember how it, that was overcome,
because, like in Jackfish, nearly everybody w~s a CCF, ayho
There was the odd one, but uh, they didn't
do to much
about it, so uh,.o• But they had no problem there. I
think Jackfish was CCF ever since I can remember. And uh,
everybody worked, helped, and eh, you know, ...
Were the women just as active as the men, would you say?
Uh, Yes, I think so, uh, 'cause I know I waso And uh,
and any of my friends, there was, oh yes.
Did you feel that you were, I don't know, taken seriously,
that's not quite what I want to say, but you know what I
mean ... You were as respected, in the Party1
Oh yes. Uhm Uhm. Oh y~s. ' · Yes, because, uh, what I
found, we had so many gooa arguements, that these, the
was arguing against us, You know, they couldn't
find anything uh,'- come back wi ·:th, really. When we say,
"Well, look-et, what's this government doing; five dollars
a month, ayho And all, well Canada was, it's a rich
country, and, you know, these are the arguements~LJe used
to get literature~ t, and study it, you know, and have
study session, and that, and uhm, and we really ... No I
don't, we never had any problems down there. It was
always, uh, it was always, as far as I can remember ...
Of course, now, the earlier years I don't know ... 'cause
I wasn't old enough to vote, ando•• But uh, ... it was
alwasys strong, the CCF, ever since I can remember.
0
�-6G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
Do you, I doo., I think you're probably to young for, to
remember women getting the vote.
No, not really, no.
twenties.
Yeah, no, no. It's ahh ... You know, I can remember
something about i t , all right, because I remember aguements,,,
I can remember ministers come and arguing, and you knowj
about ... My dad was very religiouso Uh; I don't know
whether really religious, but he, uh,'cause people were
very religious, and apparently always had to study the
Bible very .. And they used to argue these things forth
and back, and uh, and uh .. o This was what he used to, uh,
argue mostly with, was because he was figuring that this
Bible wasn't quite right., from the things that was said,
and then some of the things that was preached, ayh. But
like I say, when there's a large family, we all had to get
up and do our own chores, and that; there wasn't much to,
to, uhm, like ehh, there was chor~s,
.and, and then
schoolwork, and different things ~that. We never got much
into political, uh, arguements at home. But I really took
interest in it when Jack MacEvett started to come down.
Of course I was married then. I was nineteen when I was
married, and of course you couldn't vote until you were
twenty-one, theno But I was really into--My husband has
always been, 'cause he said that, uh, his dad was from
Norwayo And he used to tell them how the big shots took
everything there, from the fishermean, no matter how hard
you'd worked, you had to ... And uh, And so, he was always
socialist, if you'd like to call him that. And I haven ...
I've never voted anywhere else ... anything else. So, .. o
How about transportation in these days1 How did you get
around?
~
Oh you know, this is uh, the strange thin oo ... We
have
never had a car. We have never had a car.
Really?
And uh, for the simple reason, that in Jackfish there was
no highwe y, when we lived there. Now, uh, the highway
came through after we went out o~ ~he road, oh maybe a
year or so before. And we had totuhm, I don't understand
too much about it, but everybody had to pay so much, then and
do
. .. If you didn't pay, you had to work so many
days on the road that they had cut in, like. I guess the
town id it, ayh. Well then, the car was no good to us
then, because we were away all the timeo My son had a
car right away, of course. But we always travelled by
rail, or ship.
How about within the community, though. I guess if.tbings.o.
Oh. It was all railway, all rail. But the community was,
uh, You've never down past Jackfish?
No, I don't think I have.
Well there's, there's just the railwasy, in the middle, then
the lake on one side, and the mountains on the other. So
with the result that the, that the cut-in from the main
highway was very hard to put in,because it had to come down
through this plane, and then over a mountain, and then
(cut back to?) And there was no place you cou--There
was no place in the town where you could drive a caro You
had to drive just to the railway, and leave it there. So
it was all railroad travel, when we were thereo
And you'd just walk ............. .
And just walk,~ yeaho It was av ery small village, somethin'
likeo•• Oh, it wouldn't have as much walking space as
Rossport, if you've been there.
Uhm uhm. Rossport's really small.
Yeah.
But, see Rossport is, is kind of flat, ayh, and at
least you can drive into there. In Jackfish you could just
come in behind this mountain, there was just a valley in
between this mountain, behind the church, and then right
down to the railroado And that's where you had to stop.
Oh some people, uh, p~t planks across there, and went
across. But you couldn't go anywhere, so there was no
point, ayho So, ah, everything was by car, by railroad,
and it was so small that you didn't need a car,anyway, to
get around.
I've been thinking of Thunder Bay standards.
�-7A:
G:
A:
Yeal.. Oh, no. I know my aunt, she came from the west, she
used to say "I can't
breatrehere, like, 'cause
she
lived in the prairie, ayh. And she said she just seemed
like she was closed in because there was just this little
place to walk, ayh. Mountains on one side, and the lake
on the other, and the railway in the middleo
It sounds like it would be really beautiful.
Yes, it was, it was a lovely spot. Uh, a very busy spot
bsecause, uhm, in the summer they had, uhm,uhm-a, a
pulpwood, the pulp boats used to, uhm, how. can I say this?
The boats used to come into Slate Island, l that was out
quite a way) and load the pulp there, so we had th~, uh,
men come in then to, they stayed out there all summer
and worked on this pulp business. So it was always a very
busy spot, in the summer, very quiet in the winter.
But and a good, we had quite a good tourist business when
we had the store too--we had a lot of Americans come in
there, because beautiful lakes lac~ in there, very, uh,
untouched, ayh ..
good fishing, and so we haa "')"->.ri. £k C?)
quite a good tourist business.there, too. The Americans
used to like to come in. But, uh, there certainly wasn't
any cars around
there was no place to drive them,
Everything was done by wheelbarrow, if you had to, uh, ..
Move things .
Move anything; wheelbarrow in, in the summer, or toboggan
or, or sleigh in the wint er,ayh. I know we used to have
to, we burnt coal, naturally,-we were on a coal depot, and
they used to bring it in bags home, on the toboggan. So,
everything had to be moved by hand, wheelbarrow or, that
old wheelbarrow outside, that was what we used in
Jackfish.
An antique wheelbarrow.
Yeah.
What was life like for your mother, with so many children?
Well, you know, we all had our
own job, ayh. The older
had to look after the younger, and ah,
as many as us, there was of us, she has b~ ders beside.
Men that used to come and work in the summer, ayh, would
come
board with us, which she always used to say
it doesn't make much difference putting a few more
potatoes in the pot, ayh. But we all had our own jobs,
and we all had to look after
our own clothes, and
things seemed very well organized. I don't know, I can't
remember tha t;here was, uh, we all had to look after our
own rooms, ana beds, and, and uh, we all had our turn to
do dishes, and uh, .. o
You had to be a lot more responsible.
Oh yes, oh my gosh, yes. You know, if we ever got up and
we
I think there was only two of us that
was born in Schreiber. The rest were all born at home
with a midwife.
Was there a local woman, who acted as one?
Yes, uhm uhm. Bart's mom--my mother and I used to do most
of it. And before that there was an Italian lady that
used to do it. And uh, it was just, one other thing, just
another ..... I can remember my last two brothers, they
were born in Schreiber, because these women were getting
older then, ayh. And uhm, so they, my aunt, she was kind
of a midwife in Schreiber, too. So she went there, and
had it there. But uh, but uh, I can't remember any, uh,
I think today they'd, when I see children, the way they,
I think it's just uh, oh, I think it's partly parents
fault, today. Because they take the line of~ east
resistance, they say you can't do
that, and they do
it anyway, and they don't do anything about it. I can't
understand that. I know with my grandchildren here, I say
\\ you do it; and they look at me, and I say "and fast ;;
Don't sit and look at me o'r And
63, ayh.
You've got a lot of nerve.
I said "You justo .. o" Of course I do a lot of kidding,
but uh, I, I just couldn't take that. When I said
somethin to Don, I said "I want that done", and he went 0ndJ
done it, ayh. And if he didn't do it, he just had his
privileges taken away from him. And I think this is
half the battle. Because they just, just don't seem to
0.
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
�-8bother, I don't know. I can never forget one woman said
"I'll be so lad when they're married, when they're out of
my way." Oh.9 I couldn't understand that. I said "don't
you enjoy them?" And
then when I saw the way they
acted, I thought, "no wonder", but I thought "lady, it's
eour fault" .
. I think television has a lot to do with ito
A: Oh yes, terribleo Just want and sit and look at that
uhm, My little chtm1 was sittin' there yesterday and put
the, and put it on for some x sports, and I thought,
"I bet you
ten years for
G: Is this why you workEi_d?
A:
since we move'l_1ere. We moved, Bart took an
early retirement~ e've been here about seventeen
years. And he still worked two years, like we bought
this house, oh maybe, ten or twelve years before we
moved up, ayho We knew that we couldn't go back to
Jackfish, we had a house there, but there was nothing
there, ayho So l ike I say, we had to buy somewhere, so
we , everything_J--;t~~"' got
overtime, I put away to put a
payment do~house, . Well then we bought it, and
we rented it for about twelve years. Well then, the
people who rented i~were going to move away, so I said
to Bart, "Well whf} t -.f taki n' an early, he, this was how
we started~fto Mex. i~ o, in '57, He had an arthritic hip,
and they said that, like the winter's a slack time, ayh,
'cause there's no building or anything like that. So, uh,
I started looking into going to Mexicoo So we went down
there, and then, uh, the
. nP.xt winter they'd,
the people said they were going to move, so we moved
down then, and we didn't go anywhere that winter. Just
So we've been here eighteen years, and ah,
Like I say, we never stary in the winter, except the,
the two years since I've been sick. But ah, we've never
had a car either, so we've just ... Like I say, then, but
he came up, he worked, he still worked two years, at,
summers, while we were here. So I, I just couldn't sit
here and do nothing, so I started to babysit first.
Babysat for all the doctors, and that, thereo And ~
then ah, this little, this little store down by ah,
the clinic, McKay's, they looked, they were looking for
a clerk, so I worked there, for ah, five years. Then we
were, every winter we ~
.~ away, she'd have to get
someone else, so ... This year we're goin'to, summer we're
goin up to Alaska, so I said "I'm oing to quit", I said
"You911 have to get someone else", 9cause it's not fair to
her either, ayh. So we came back in October, and then I
knew the woman that was working in, in the uh, what do
you call the office down there, employment office, and she
phones,
and "Would you like to go and work at Burk's
~ itts. I said "What?" So she said "They're looking for
someone for Christmas rush',' so I said "Okay, I' 11 go down
and try it". So I went down and then I worked every
summer then, for ten years. I really enjoyed ito •
G: Did you work, uhm, in your early_..y,ears of marriage?
A: No, except for our own . bus flies s, when we had, had our own
store, like, you·-know; in, in the country. But when we
were on the road, we were never anywhere maybe sometimes
.two weeks, and then
maybe sometimes two days, ayh. So !~ just ah,
G: Are this, I
that there are3/many opportunities
for women to work, in small towns, small ~industry towns.
A: Small--No, no,no. Uhm, what there was an :~ an hotel in
Jackfish, during uhm, now let's see, that started during
the war. But, there had been previously, a hotel
before, and it, people died, and they just closed it
down. Well then, this family, Spidoni brothers, you've
heard of them in Schreiber, I guesso They bought the
hotel, and they opened it up, so this was the,really the
only place to work, ayh. Cook, or
or, ah, upstairs
girl, and bartenders. But I never did, I never worked
there, 'cause we had our own store, then.
G: You had the general store?
A: Yes, l the post offic~ and this, uh, other office, that the
�--9-
G:
A:
Immigration guys
So I worked there., most of the time.
But uh, other than that there wasn't, there was nothing
in, in smaller places.
Do you remember any people, I'm thinking particularly of
women, being really lonely, really sort of cabin-crazy?
No. No, I don't think so. Not that I can remember.
Everybody was too busy. You knowo Like the men worked
steady, ayh, and the women just had to do, take over for
the men laid off when they had to work,ayh. And like uh,
you just didn't come in and turn a button on, and a
stove go, you had to keep your stove up and carry your
water in. Heat your water on the stove to wash clothes,
and it, and iron ) the iron's on the stove, and this all,
you know, it took so much more time than it does these
days. So I say laugh. · when that girl said she was tired,
pushing a button on an automatic washing machine. Ahh, no
I can't ... Oh there was lot's around eh, you know, in the
1 .
.m re
the farming district, I thinko
Yeah, I guess women really isolated, in the country.
Yes, but we were never really isolated, because we had
mail twice a day,ayh, which is something, because the
mainline went right through it, and the railroad carried
the mail then. And ah, so we had mail twice a day, and
we had, uh, we got fresh fruit and vegetables twice a
week. From town her~,they'd come down, on the train.
And fresh milk every morning, 'cause it came on the
train, too. At one time there was seven trains going by
there, ayh, passengers. And uh, So we
really weren't~
where we were, we weren't isolated at all because we,
~
other than that we didn't get out too much,. Like I say
we made our own fun, and, and we uh, oh we were never
without anything. And like, there was a doctor in
Schreiber, which is, was nineteen miles awayo And if we
needed him, we just phoned through the CPR phone, to the
station in Schreiber, and he came down on the first
freight. So we really were better off than a lot of
places that didn't even, when they didn't have a highway~
ayh. We
at least had the mainline going
right
~
through. And anything happened, well, they were always
kind enough to stop a train and pick anybody up that was
hurt, and bring them in to whereever was, to Schreiber,
or anywhere. I know all the uh, sick people that had to
come to town, they just stopped them, put them on a
stretcher, put them in the baggage car. And then we
came up with them on the baggage car. So uh, and we'd
phone the doctor in Schreiber, and say so and so was on
the baggage car, and he'd come in and see if they needed
a needle or something. He was a CPR doctor then--and a
town doctor too. And if they needed help before we got
to town, well he'd give them a needle of some kind, like,
you know. And we just stopped in time to expect a train
here, and took us to the hospital.The, uh, only thing
that we found, the younger ones wouldn't stay there to
have their babies,ayh. Like, before the babies were born
they came up to town here, or to Schreiber and waited.
But the old
timers used to have them right in town
at home. But no, we were, we were very fortunate there,
because, like I say, we were just like on the mainline
of ah, uhm, lots of places that's all they, the only thing
that was, you know, there was no highways in a lot of
those places. So uh, we were, we were, I guess, we never
thought of it then, but now I realize that we were lucky,
much luckier than most people, where they were isolated
away back in the bush.
What did~ ~u say, that there was a school in Jackfish?
Uhm uhmJ_~ rade one to grade eight.
And how ~ Mdid many people go on to high school?
Yes, quite a few.
And they'd have to go to Schreiber?
They'd have to come to town hereo
Oh, to here?
Uhm uhm,
Really?
Uhm uhm.
There was no high schools i ny of the ~~
0
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
0
±
There was high schools in Sc reiber, but, now, I don't
�-10-
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
G:
A:
understand what the ruling was there, I guess you could
have gone there, but it, uh, no, I don't think so. 'Cause
nobody ever went into Schreiber too. My son took music
lessons, and he had to leave, Like he'd leave ot night at
seven o'clock to go to Schreiber, which is nineteen miles
away,stay overnight, have his lesson, music lesson in the
morning, and come back at noon the next day. But he
didn't mind that at all. And first he, the first time he
went to White River. He started in White River, but then
the music teacher died, there, and eh, I thought "well
gees it's much easier to go to Schreiber, because I, that
was two days to go to White River, ayh. You went down in
the morning, and then you couldn't go back until the next
nighto
So that was the whole weekend, and he, he used to
love to fish, ayh, so uhm, this way he went in at night
and he was back in the morning. But
eh, no, everybody
there, I don't know what the reasono You know, I never
thought about thato I think that most of them that came
up to high school, wanted uhm, to go to technical school,
they didn't just want high school. They did their first
year, and then they chose their, what they wanted to do,
ayh. I think th¾_s was why they mostly all came up here.
'Cause I know Doqhad to come up here. And anybody that
came, eh, it was out p, unless they wanted to go to, eh,
to be a teacher, then they had to go to North Bay. There
was no teacher's college here then eithero And-a, nursing,
they mostly all came here,because at that time there was
a residence~fhat they could stay in, ayh,o Now it's all,
isn't it alJJJniversity and just ...
The college, stays there, yeah.
Yeah, uhm uhm. And, 'cause quite a few nurses, quite a
few pupils come out, ayh, quite a few pupils came up.
Do you recall the, uhm, it would be mostly boys who
continued on to high school? Or was it sort of half and
half?
~~)
No,no, no. Half and half--a lot of~girls, nursing, teaching.
Like I say, I know they had to go
to
North Bay to teach, because when we wer
on the road, we
were in North Bay,working, and this young girl was in
college there, and she used to come down to visit us, ayh.
And this is how I know they had to go to school,into
North Bay to go to school,
Oh no, the, the, girls
had uh, came out, there was ai many go , as boys.
having more, uh, they were, should go first, were the, uh,
foreigners
. You know, they thought the boys
were, should go, and the girls should stay home. But in
among our, we, that was never, .uh, prevalent were we, you
know, girls, if they wanted to gOf'\iad the same chance as
boys, whereas with some of the foreigners,the boys had to
go first. Even if they're dumber. You know. They were
the, they were the misters.
You mean there were.
~~-_·,:~a:.,~~,.. a lot of
foreign families?
Yes, there waso Uhm Uhm.
What nationality would be ,,.,, ----7. (~)
Uhh, uho Mostly Italians, there was ah, a couple of
Ukrainian families, but they were mostly *alians down
thereo And ah, then all, men that came i o work in the
st.mnner, brought their families, in Sudbury ?)o But ah,
Did the connnunity, uh, did they reach together?
Oh yeso Uhm , uhm, uhm uhm. Like I say, there were so few,
ayh, that it took everybody to, to get anything going.
But as I can remember, we had some good times. We used to
ha ve big picnics, you know, in the summer. And ah, pie
socials, kids didn't even know what a pie social was.
What's a pie social?
It's a box social, where you make this fanc, oh no, fancy,
and there was at this, uh, most of the time there was
such a competition on who would make the best, the nicest
box, ayh. And uh, then you'd have to have it auctioned off,
and ... You know, you never hear of those things any moreo
That was just something you do for ... I must, I must
suggest that to Home League sometime, just for fun. 'Cause
their always looking for something different to do, you
know. We have teas and, and~things, but that\/ was J1~fent:_
~-~t\\~
~\) 5~
�'
-11-
G:
A:
And they always said they could tell the teachers
' box,
'cause it was always so much fancier, she had so much to
work with, ayh. And I can remember this one guy had
quite a crush on this teacher, and ah, this, she just put
it in a, in a plain brown box with a bow on it, ayho And
this great big fancy box came up, and he thought it was
hers, and he bid, bid so way up high. And here it was
~
married woman, she had about six kids. And here
comes this box, and he didn't bother, and here it was the
teacher'so It went for about a dollar, ayh. But, like
I say, everybody had to, to chip in, ayh,because it was,
but we had, we made our own mi
, we had to go and
build our own mi
shack, put a stove in, to, to
change our shoeso We used to do it in the station, and
then the officials got mad and kicked us out of there,
so ... But everything seemed to, I don't know, everybody
seemed to pitch in and, •o• I guess
smaller
cotm:Ilunities are like that. I don't know, they always
like the ... Like I was telling the kids, I think we had
just as much fun then--there wasn't G!.any money, but, but
we were fortunate enough that nobody was hard up. And,
like I say, if anybody had a problem, everybody was there
to help them.
.c~1:r --\.
Yeah, I've also found that places that women~didn't have
so many social service agencies as we do now, there was a
whole sort of, policing force within the, in the region.
If someone was mistreating his wife, or those kind of
prob 1 ems .
~ ere.'s·
Yes, yes. Oh yeaho I think A far too much hand-outs
these days. I know I did volunteer work
and I
do meals on wheels, too,ayh. But boy, oh boy, there's
some funny things going on there too. I know I used to
go
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herstory: Elizabeth Almos
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Mrs. Elizabeth Almos in Port Arthur, Ontario. The interview was performed by Karen Graves as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project.
During the interview, Mrs. Almos recalls the social and working conditions of Northern Ontario, primarily focussing on Jackfish, Ontario, in the early 20th century, with topics including housing, mining, railways, unions, the Canadian Pacific Railway, community and personal relationships, and the activity of women. Mrs. Almos also highlights the presence of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (CCF) and its eventual successor, the New Democratic Party (NDP), in small towns in Northwestern Ontario, specifically Jackfish, Schreiber, Dorion, and Hurkett .
The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available here as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnail.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Audio
Text
Subject
The topic of the resource
People
Women's History
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Port Arthur
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/849bad08f25eaf67ea34a9e1fd3ae8b6.mp3
041fe7b05310e670d47f2ead744077be
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/8673e186adf0d05f622da3aff97115b2.mp3
6b9839eb83d6f8785d27601b3cd7b274
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/7c230f580ca8894a1bf08a3d9b77905d.pdf
51f2125e6728db6754373a8bef79af6c
PDF Text
Text
I
\
HF,RSTORY
I
P10JECT
Mrs. Helen Atkinson interviewed by Geore;ina Garrett and Karen Dubinsky
G.G.
You were going to tell a story about Mrs. Miller, the b~acksmith in Dorion.
A.
She wasn't really known as a blacksmith but she always had a lot of horses
on her own farm, back in the valley, up in the Ouimet Canyon area. In the
early '20's you had teams of horses, particularly heavy horses - this is what
they used to haul pulp in the bush camps.
Mrs. :Miller and the hired man,
Alec Boisie, they both hired on to t he Provincial, I think that was in F.W.
the Abitibi was a few years ago, was the Provincial Timber Co. - I don't
think it was the Provincial Timber Co., I'm not sure whet it was really called.
Anyway, they went back into camp and of course she took one teai~ and Alec
took another team and the shacks they lived in in those days are a far cry
from the type of things they live in today, in bush camps. It came time to
go to bed and of course all the other men in that particular sleep schack
were all a little wary about ~etting undressed because a woman was in the camp
but she couldn't load her - I guess it would be sleighs because they did most
of the hauling in the winter time on sleighs.
Q.
A.
Did she hire herself to haul lumber?
This wasn ' t lumber, this was pulp - ther's a difference. She had to load it
and it was 4 foot sticks and you would load it from the piles the cutters
had cut and they were all cut with ordinary saws in those days, not power saws.
She turned around to the men and she said, "Look fellows, you might as well
go to sleep .... " (she was already in bed) " .... all I came for was to haul
pulp like the rest of you."
And she turned over and went to sleep.
I al-
ways thought that was so 2.propos - women's lib. away back 58 years ago.
She
was g_uite the old girl, I just loved Mrs. Miller, she was really a darling
person.
Q.
Where was her husband at this point?
A.
I don ' t know, I asked about this the other day because I thought of this story.
I've got two or three of these, of these old stories, with these old time c:;als
�with women's lib ideas.
A lot of people nowad.ays figure that they went along
with everything their husbands said.
They did to a point but sometimes they
could dig their toes in and make things pretty miserable, in a very subtle
manner that a lot of girls nowadays don't do, can ' t do because once they had
the training how to do it.
But her husband, I don ' t !mow whether he died or
she left him, I really don't know. Bill Holder might be able to tell you
that. She stayed one winter with old Bill Holder down there, and she was an
old lady when she died - she was way into her 90 ' s.
She was the most beautiful
cook and it used to be cute to go and visit her and old Alec Boisie, he had
been the hired man, but by this time you're both getting old and he had his not his part of the house exactly, but he had a sort of sittinG room bedroom
and it ·was quite large because it was a fairly large house - and she had her
end of the house.
I remember the last time I was there.
They had no power
back there yet, there wasn't sufficient population for the expense and they
each had their radio and we were there one Saturday afternoon.
We had gone
out - my husband had to get something from Mrs. Miller - however ::he turned
on the radio, this wasn ' t that many years ago, I don ' t think T.V. 'shad come
up yet, we were johnny-come-lately's as far as T.V. reception was concerned,
with Thunder Bay. So we had to listen to the radio and Alec, he comes to
the door and he says, "If you think that is a good one, come and hear mine."
Well, I wasn't going to say that this was better. It wasn ' t exactly a feud
but it Has a sort of one-upmanship all the time. It was really charming.
I don't think a lot of people were aware of it but it used to really tittilate
me because my grandfather and grandmother were very much the same - always
Q.
one up on each other, but that pulp story I thought was beautiful.
How did she get a reputation as a blacksmith?
A.
She did do her own blacksmithinB so far as I know.
Long after I came out to
Dorion she riould come out to the store, to Bratten ' s store, it used to be up
on the side road, ana_ then they built the big new place and they sold it
3 or 4 years ago.
She came out with a buggy - she was still coming out with
one of them.
Q.
How did she survive financially?
A.
She farmed back there and that uas exactly why you go back in the bush with
the horses in the Hinter time, because He used to have this cash, I don't
know what they goi, but it shouldn't be that hard to find out.
�Q.
A.
She'd cut her own wood?
No, she wouldn't be cutting the pulpwood, she was just hauling from somewhere
out to a landing which would usually be on a lake so they could raft it down
in spring.
Q.
A.
You must be from the east.
No.
If you've never seen them form a raft, they haven't been doing that for a
A.
long time.
I've seen it in Lake Nipigon.
Yes, you see the big rafts there.
Q.
too.
Does she have descendants that are still living?
Q.
A.
'l.
A.
Not that I know of.
She never had children then?
I couldn't even tell you that.
Used to raft down here on the Black Sturgeon
Never heard it mentioned but I'm not saying ....
when I first met her she was a woman in her 60's and you don ' t ..... When I
first saw the house, and it was a log place that they had built, it was really
nice, I always wished we had had it. It was a really beautiful place with
a great
Q.
A.
big lot
- they are the "in" thing now.
This is your husband's mother.
Yes. But mousy places because mice could get in.
Oh, boy, there were mice.
They had come from England in 1910, Joe wasn't born until they got out here.
They lived in F.W. for perhaps a year or two and then they got the place
fixed, the farm.
They bought the property down her, or homesteaded it.
That's
somethine; I'm not sure about, there is a difference. I think it was bought.
They were in it together - Grandpa Atkinson and Grand.ma Atkinson who has
been dead for years and years and her brother, Foster, was his last name.
Anyway, when they got off the train, when they came from F. W. and they had
everything loaded into one box car - they landed out her out on
Station, so they had to walk up the track a mile from the station just beside
the ____ to the ______ which is not too far from the track.
It is
right across the highway from where the track is and where the highway is now.
The sister was about 4 when they got to this farm and the house was just
rounded logs with the cracks because they don't fit smooth like timbers do.
There were even the chips lying around - this is a family story told over the
years although Joe was only a baby - about 3 months old - he wouldn 't remember but he has heard it often enough. It was just a rough building and this
�is what you're supposed to live in with a 3 or 4 month baby and a 4 year old
daughter.
Bessie, the 4 year old - Elisabeth - she looked around the place
and said to her mother, "Do we have to live in this woodshed?"
I found out
anyway by asking members of the family - Bessie in particular -.how you
could get a place like that liveable. You can imagine walking int.o a rough
log place, what would you do with it? She said they used mud and sawdust and
anything you could get to chink it for the winter because it was about June
when they came in.
They got it all chinked up and then they used gunny sacks
in which the animal feed came in and I think perhaps one cow·was all they had,
and you would tack that to make a smooth finish, as
smooth as you could 5et
it and then you would, later on if you could afford a few rolls of wallpaper,
then you made home-made flour paste and glued it on.
It took several years
to get tse place into something decent, when I first saw it in 1938, it was
Q.
A.
really'a charming place but when you think of how it at first was.
tlhat did they do for furniture?
Theirs was with them, in fact there is a walnut rocking chair - it is really
beautiful, I think it's called a Queen Anne style - I ' m not saying 1t's a
real Queen Anne, I don't even Imow where the thing came from.
I just gave
Q.
A.
it to my daughter-in-law and my son because we used to use it in our summer
cottage. There is quite a few things like that - the clock they brought with
them was a wedding present from England. There was also china.
Did they want to farm? Is that why they came here?
In those days in England, if you owned 160 acres of property, they were always
Q.
relating it to what it was like in England. Where would you ever buy that
property yourself? Anyone in a working class atmosphere, themselves would
never be able to buy it in England - they can't yet I don ' t think.
You 're a large gandowner if you own 100 acrs.
A.
Right - Grandpa owned more than that - he owned 320 acres, 160 anyway, that
would be safe to say, and a grandson has it now.
Q.
We found that so many people when they came to the middle of the bush in
Northern Ontario, would always bring something likecchina etc, to represent
the good life.
A.
That's right because, they were perhaps a little different then all the settlers.
Joe has pictures of when they were just kids ·- all of the pictures
of Joe and the younger brother, Ben, who owns a garage over here and is living
in a fantastic house, shows them with their white shirts on on Sunday with
the ties on and always the white linen tablecloths on the table.
So you
brought your culture with you, even though your environment was a little crude
like it would be in the bush at that time, but you did have a certain amount~
�of culture, especially the
people from Britain.
Q.
Do you think they were disappointed?
A.
I don't think so, Joe's mother died 4..5 years ago and Grandpa Atkinson went
back to England - the first time he went back - Joe and I 1xere already married
and you used to hear these stor~es about England and you used to think you ' d
never want to see the place because everything was super.
I asked him how
he found things and asked him if everything was better than Canada because
this was how we always used to rib him.
He said "Oh, Blast.
They are so
blind over there, some of the places don't even have electricity !"
That shut
him up, I never heard anymore about England.
Q.
~Je talked to a woman - Catherine Stephenson.
A.
Oh, yes, she was a war bride.
Q.
No, she wasn't because she came over here as a young girls anddstayed with her
aunt and lLY1cle.
She has been here since 1924 and. she would say "home"
meaning England.
A.
They do talk like that because my people are Scottish from Manitoba and it
,;•ms "home" and when you get to see those old Scottish people together.
I
remember not too long before Dad and r1other died there were a few Scottish
people and they uould all go back to the brog11e like they had only come over
a year ago and they'd been out here since ... Dad since he was 17 years old
and that Has 60 years and they could go back into that easily.
In fact my
brother and I used to be able to do it too because you hear it for so long.
~.
Do you knm-.r if there was any i:nvolvement here on the part of the Women's
Institute in the suffrage movement?
A.
That I have never heard of.
Ontario were johnny-come-lately ' s women-wise,
as far as separtism was concerned.
Manitoba was the loader in that.
Q.
It seems most of the rural communities were ......... .
A.
Have you any idea how many women it doesn't mean a damn thine: to as far as the
vote is concerned now?
You know what one woman told me at the last election?
She said, "I'm not too sure who I'm going to vot for but ....... "
I can rem-
ember one girl telling me, "There was a big dance and I wanted to go and I
didn't have a decent dress" so she dug out some flour sacks, nq sugar bags,
and "I dyed them and I macle myself a dress.
I cut buttons off old shirt·s
that were in the ras bag until I had enough" and she had it buttoned all
down the front 1--rith a belt to match.
new to wear.
I was 16 and you had to have something
�told me how her mother would make dresses out of flour sacks -
Q.
they bleached them so that all the writing on them caJne off and then made
A.
dresses.
And pants, underpants.
I remember when I first came to Dorion - you were
just getting out of the Depression in ' 39, I came that fall and the war started
in September.
I remember a friend that lived a mile from us, making kids'
underwear - slips - but she put lace on them, little panties with lace, so
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
there was this little bit of culture.
It's funny, now they sell flour sack tops in stores and leave the writing on.
You're kidding.
Oh, yes - Robin Hood. I doubt if it is real flour sacks ....
. ... That was 1904 .... but I do rememner that because 74 years ago I was even
surprised when I read this, that they actually elected a woman a treasurer,
when there were all the men, . . . .Nrs. S. Holder ....
Q.
A.
I thought the pr~iries had long, severe winters.
They do, but not as lonr as ours. You go out there in April and the grain is
up all around, where you are not plantine; anything here at all.
We just plaated
our tomatoes this morning, and I think that has a lot to do with it.
Also
you were greatly dependant on your gardens for a lot of your vegetables, because those old girls used to can stuff and you had root cellars and that.
If you had early frosts and frosts during the summer which are very prevalent
in this part of the country, in Eastern Ontario. So if your earden is damagQ.
ed to any extent .....
I remember reading about a pioneer and the first year everything was wiped out.
A.
It was all wiped out with frost.
problem.
Getting meals ready must have been a real
Take your potatoe crop, suppose you had an extremel~· ~,;ret fall and
you couldn ' t bet them picked up or harvested and you lost half of them. You
;-rere dependant upon your own potatoe crop because if yours was damaged with
some of those diseases, 9 times ou:t; of 10 your neighbors would have the same
problem.
If you were lucky enough and you always had to save potatoes from
last year's pla11ting for next year's seed in this part of the oountry because
shipping Has pretty grim in those days too.
one?
Q.
A.
Doctors - how would you eet to
A lot of children died uith diseases.
Did you know any mid-wives in this area?
Yes, Mrs. Watty was a midwife, and Joe's sister in the ' JO ' s. She was a
e:-raduate nurse in St. Joseph's and she used to work in with the Department
�of Agriculture - you've heard of their extension services - and she would
go around giving home nursin:; courses which is the "in" thing now.
Keep the
penple·home and go and take care of them there because the hospitals are
running on shortened money and the more severe cases go to the hospital.
In
those days, suppose you had a very ill child and you were living way back in
the ______ area where we lived for JO years and the roads Here blocked
in the winter, how would you get out?
You had to depend on yourself and
whatever medicines you had or old fashioned remedies.
That pulled a lot of
them through but a great many died too.
Q.
Do you think the women down here learned anythine; from the native women who
A.
had a lot of skills in living in this kind of "nvironment?
Dorion? Perhaps no, because it wasn't a real bic_; Indian area, not for a long •
time.
In Hurkett there were a lot of Indian people.
They interreacted in -
the smoking of fish, now a lot of people did smoke fish, especially the suckers
that ran heavily in spring and you could get loads of them.
Q.
for the winter.
People ate suckers?
That was fish
In Th1mder 13ay they don ' t eat suckers - they are wormy
fish.
A.
They are notaall wormy.
cake out of them.
I canned them too.
You can make a beautiful fish
And they learned a great many things about canning.
The
men were pretty fair hunters and even during the Depression in the offseason, there were loads of times that a moos or deer - that ' s where your
meat came from.
Q.
Do. you think women developed the skills as they lived or did they come here
with some kind of Imowledge of medicine etc?
A,
I think both of your suggestions are correct in some instances.
Also a
0
reat
many of the women did get their information from older women - learn things
from neighbors like cooking - recipes go from first to last.
In this area
not too many ethnic groups came in from Europe until after the First World
-rar so that a lot of those women wouldn't have too many of those skills unless they were rural women but rural women have always had a lot of these
types because it is learnt from mother to daughter etc.
I had an extremely
good neighbor - Mrs. Reno - they were very early settlers in 1910 and she had
slews of relatives left, sons and daughters and grandchildren.
But mentioning
the medical skills, in those days Mrs. Watty delivered several of Mrs. Reno's
1
�family.
My oldest son was very sick with diarrehea and I had him into see
a specialist in town and he gave this prescription but nothing worked so
Mrs. Reno came over one day - she said she could sive mef something for, that.
He was about 18 months and was he sick, he lost a lot of weight.
She sent
one of the daughters over with raspberry bushes - just the cane - and told
me to cut them up and boil them and simmer for about 10 minutes.
Strain it
carefully through several layers of material so none of the thorns came
through and bive it to him in a bottle or anyway he ' s going to drink it.
In
two days he was all cleared up. :She said her mother had told her that trick.
I remember telling that to a child specialist and he said he wouldn't doubt
it and that some of those old girls had marvellous treatments they think of.
Q.
Have you ever heard of lemon juice being used widely as a birth control method?
A.
You were talking to Bill, I ' ve got sheets of stuff that he sent me long ago.
How about mountain ash berries, have you ever tried them?
Q.
I hear they're poisonous.
A.
No, they aren't.
You've heard of Pete ____ from the Ministry of Natural
Resources, well his wife asked me if I had mad it and I said I had twice.
Jello from mountain ash because I read it was good. I don ' t doubt that it ' s
loaded with Vitamin C but, it ' s just like wild plums, can ' t get enough sugar
in to cut the sharpness out of it.
Q.
A.
What about baking soda?
Never.
Do you know if that was a good ...... .
Q.
Fill capsules up with baking soda and lemon juice.
A.
That sounds like a placebo.
Q.
Do you think there is a lot of co-operation between women in Dorion and the
Hurkett area?
A.
Q.
There is some interaction but not really.
Hhy didn't they mix?
A.
I don't know, I've often wondered.
I can remember seeing that done as a placebo.
They were always friendly and if anyone
got burned out, now I ' m thinking of a long time ago, you'll find there are
always more people in Dorion that settled as families than what there were
down there.
Old families as compared to what there is in Hurkett.
Because
a lot of people down there were ori,:inally, their families were from Dorion.
There was an institute but with a little interractiion.
Q.
I don't mean between women of Hurkett and Dorion, I mean the women in Dorion
itself.
�'
.
A.
Yes, there still 1s, to a great extent but a gr;eat extent of the people 1n
Dorion have gone to school together which gives you a sort of - a great many
of' the families are related through marriage. In fact i t took me three y8&'C'S
to get it aJ.l strai~ened out when I first came. You didn't. say anything
about anybody because i t could be a sister-in==law, a cousin or an aunt or an
uncle etc., so you said nothing because after you'd get caught they'd say,
"Oh• yes, that's my brother's wife or she's my aunt on my father's side." Get
pretty leery about sqing anything.
Q.,
What about in the older ~s?
A.
Just the sams.. there was just as much. whan they were
Church that doesn •t stand anymore, the Anglican Church
and the Baptist Ohurch had something also and then the
'l'he Anglicans perhaps would h:.e a _ _ _ _ an Fricuey
building the Baptist
had an annual. picnic
Catholic Church too.
~ t and you could
Q.
depend on the same people being on that one as would be on the Catholic one
because they intemixed. a great deal, no never ulnd as far as religion was
concemed.
Do you think ·the relationships bet-ween women overcame etlmic and religious
boundaries?
You've heard of the Intemational Da.y that the Institu·t.es have? Well, we had
one ~t the haJ.l quite a f'ew years ago and i t made no nwer :nind he:re. I was
really surprised when I first came to Dorion. I had been brought up that
w~ m;rsel.£ because when I went to school we had the League of Nations. One
thing I rsaember the first year I started public sohool, I was going on 9
and I didJ1't even know what the poor tea.chllr was talking about. She toldus
we shollldn ~t eat garlic before we came to s~hool. Especially in the wint~
time when the roams would be just sick, these were first generation Canad1ana
like JI\YSelf' and theyt'J. have strings around their 11eck. On old woman lived
in Dorion and my sister-in-law, for the oldest boy, that was just what she
tol'- rJ.m to use - you couldn'•t. get, near the poor little guy. Garlic was a
cure all for everything even then, they used to put turpentine on brown paper
and .put i t on your chest £or a <..~ or on the soles ot your
feet. What your
.
feet had to do with your chest I don~t Imow.
Was the Wamen•s Institute the only organizational format?
Yes and 1.t did a tremendous amount o£ good.
V e1.vy tiue of a lot of places.
A.
Almost ever.y-where.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
�Why do. you think that was?
I
Q,
A.
Q.
A.
You're too young to realize there were not too many women's organizations.
Actually it is the largest one in the world ~th the grea.tes number of members,
at last count.....it was about 7 million. The ~icanadian Women's Club was an old
club but it was, ~trlct~y urban und th~ sam.e with the Canadian W(>Dlen•s Press
Club but it •s called Median Club now. It is also old but- strictly urban. There
was .not~ in th~ rural areas - II183'be the famer•s Association and the _women
were invited especially a £aw times in Ea.stern Ontario.
You m..,an the United _F armers Part,y tha.t won the election?
l'lo. Mrs. Ho?d.less - Izvine Lee is the man I was thinking of. He was responsible for get.ting it started. He invited. her to go a..1:oim.d with him and do
the first speaking at this fa.1.111ar's meeting and ·t;he women had been invited.
I oan•·t remember what it was C"~cl. I've aJ.wqs heard va.n~e things about it
over t.ha yeaxs and nEJV'er could pin anyb~ dmmo There were the Junior Famers
and there was alweya the Woodlands ~ch groups. I don•t think there was a
Catholic Womens• Leac,~e but I think there is now in Hurkett, Dorion and
Pearl but that is very contampera.ry_.
Where do ~.QU think that 1 t wa..'3 the Women •s Institute that too!t off? Why is
it so extensive?
When i·t first stuted. in Ca..?lada. - and it is ver:, big 1n a ,l ot of oth~ countries where a lot of what we have leaJ;ned 1n t,he :N.rst 25 to 30 years of it ,s
being o:r6dnized. in Canada - food production and preparations and preserving
food etc. _,. -they are just wor~ on that in a lot or areas now. In the developing countries - and some develop but there is a very great dif;l'erence
between - beca.1.tse most of those countries don tt µave a midc!le cl~s such a~
t-1e .do,. They have the very rich or the very poor - there is .1 very thin line
of' in-between where t'1.e masses of Canada and t~e U.s, . and even J3%'1ta1n are
ma.de .up of the middle class. Fduca.tion had never ~een too big in some of
th, .. countries. Ou.r's was the one that ssid women should be educated and
they did the best to educating tlte women - maybe mor~ in the line of housekeeping skills, cleanliness and things people take for granted. no~. Pasteurizing milk,. public hea1th service, educattn~ women - if you read any of those
stories about the first woman doctor .. sh~ ~ ter.r:1ble times getting t:t,eough
tmiverei.;.y because they didn •t feel she wo~d have the a.bllity, the brains,
etc.. You were al.wB.¥S class.e a a.s a second-cl3Ss citizen 1t· not fourth-class
�,.
after the animals if they came off a farm.
I think that's what it was and
Q.
the women were aw:.i., of j t •
We looked at the Le~~~ b<;'ok from ~
- Hymer's area 1·Jomen 's Institute and
it is really good. It gave outlines of some of the topics discussed at meet-
A.
ings.
Some of them are very interesting.
Laws pertaining to Ontario women - and that is a contemparary issue - was in
Q.
1913 discussed.
A.
It's like everything else you get - you oute;row things. But there have been
a ,ireat many things that have been brought into law as far as women and children are concerned.
One of the big deals here
is the family laws.
four years ago a_nd still is,
Some of the women had been cut off 1-:ithout
a dime.
The
husband diecl and left half of it to the church or J/4 of the women worked
Q.
like dogs.
Mrs. Hymers, my neighbor, considered herself to be a very independanrfi, strong
woman - do you think their husbands treated them as equals because they worked so hard on the farm and work in the bush etc., or do you think that even
though they had these skills they weren't ...
A.
It depends entirely on the man-woman relationship. My mother was a very
independant woman, she and dad got along very well. I think it depends on
the people themselves. Fith all the talk etc., it takes two if you're going
to be married - it takes a certain relationship but it depends on you as
much as your husband.
Q.
A.
What was the attitude of the men here, to the Women's Instutute?
I'm a fairly new member compared to others because it had been operating for
years before I ever heard of it, although my grandmother belonged in Manitoba.
I think they kind of made fun because you actually do get that attitude even
yet with a lot of women's groups.
so.
Chatter and stitch type of thing but not
I think women do a lot of talking but men do too, all you have to do is
go to conferences these days - they talk and talk.
Maybe not so much modern
vromen - the use of the husband in your family came first even though you
worked outside, and loads of them did, held down a full-time job.
interested in your family first and then the job.
You were
First you have to be an
individual yourself and an independa.nt type of person. You can't do a good
job on those two, I don't care Hho you are. If you can't carry on a good
relationship Hith yourself. If you can't be happy with yourself you won't be
LI
�happy with anybody.
I think a lot of pioneer women learned how to live with
themselves first ru1d then the rest comes easy.
I ' m thinking of all the women
I knew who had been active all their lives, have done.all those things, have
been married and are still married to the same person. I ' m not counting the
friends who have been divorced two or three times because they could be married 49 times and they ' d go and do the same thing everytime.
First you learn
about yourselves, I think that is something a lot of younger women aren ' t
aware of. This finding yourself that you're always talking about is not a
thin~ to talk about, it ' s a thing to do because no one can do it but you and
it comes from inside not from all the blah blah.
I don ' t care who you are .
. . . . . . Invariably you take lunch with them, so they served coffee and sandwiches.
Q.
But women never did the firefighting themselves.
A.
No, but some of the younger women now, because women have been incorporating
Hith some of the fire departments, especially the volunteer groups because
of the men beini:;; away all day.
I think i:aka beka - they had the first women
who actually drove the truck, they are trying to do that now here.
But there
is al Hays enough men around here that work right in within the community .
. . . . . . we didn ' t 3et any grants or anything - they did the whole thing themselves.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herstory: Helen Atkinson
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Mrs. Helen Atkinson in Dorion, Ontario on June 20, 1978. The interview was performed by Georgina Garrett and Karen Dubinsky as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project.
During the interview, Mrs. Atkinson recalls the social, material, and working conditions of Northern Ontario in the early 20th century, including housing, farming, furniture, pulp hauling, clothing, medicine, community and personal relationships, and the activity of women. Halfway through the second audio file, Mrs. Atkinson speaks about the Women's Institute and other women's organizations of the early 20th century.
The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnail.
Please note that there is brief mention of Indigenous peoples in the area of Dorion, Ontario that make use of language no longer considered appropriate.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1978-06-20
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Audio
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Dorion
Canada - Ontario - Fort William
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used.
Subject
The topic of the resource
People
Women's History
-
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/285dba208206fc0bfe4aefafcbc9e876.mp3
70a5ce426b5c2428430727363d248869
https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/46a69a71f9f5e652e07d531449f0a86a.pdf
feb2208a5fad6cb1805e2d4c99a9571f
PDF Text
Text
'
i
.
l
J
'--'<'. ~
j
HERSTOTIY PROJECT
\
Mrs .. Forrester interviewed by Georgina Garrett
Q.
.Jhen did you start at Canada Car Mrs. Forrester?
A.
January, 1941.
Q.
How old were you?
A.
16.
Q.
Why did you start working there?
·A.
My stepfather was sick, he couldn ' t work and I had to quit school and get a
job.
Q.
What made you choose Canada Car?
A.
They were hiring in those days and needed all they could get.
Q.
I know a lot of women worked there - were most of the peoply you worked with
women?
Q.
Uhen I first started there were 200 men and 5 women.
Did you like it?"
A.
Oh yes.
Q.
How did you feel abo.ut doing something that was kind of unusual for a woman
A.
Not at first.
to do?
A,
I enjoyed it, I really did.
Q.
What did you do at first?
A.
I went into riveting.
Q.
]ho taught you how to rivet?
A.
Bill Williams and Doug Holchak.
Q.
:Afhat did you work with?
A.
They are air guns and rivets.
Q.
TJhat were you building?
A.
The plane wings.
Q.
What kind of planes were they?
A.
When I first started they were Hawker Hurricanes, and then it was the Curtis
How do you rivet?
Helldivers for the States.
Q.
A.
Was there a patriotic feeling about building these planes?
I don ' t think so, it vras just a job.
�Q.
A.
Was it mono~onous, riveting?
No, I really enjoyed it .
There are so many different sizes of rivets and
sizes of guns and full of different things and parts of the wings.
I worked
on the whole wing , not just one piece of it.
Q.
tras it highly skilled?
A.
No.
Q.
In this picture you are standing across from another woman.
A.
Sitting, she was riveting, I had the gun on this side and she was bucking the
bar on the other side to flatten th~m out.
It took two to rivet, she was my
helper.
Q.
Was there a close feeling amon€:, the women?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Why was there a close feeling?
A.
For one thing, the people were from right across Canada who worked there, we
Of course there was a whole department, there was no fights or anything.
rqet people from every province.
Q.
i!hat was there about the plant that .... ?
I still write to them and go to see them.
Has there any co-operation among the women?
Did they teach each other dif-
ferent skills?
A.
No, I had helpers that were women but we had a lot of boys coming in.
about me?
But what
They got higher pay because I was a woman and yet I had to teach
them.
Q.
Didn ' t your union ever complain about this?
A.
Nothing you could do about it.
The women got paid lower than the men.
Even
when I was there for 4 years, the boys came in and they were younger than me
but they got higher pay because they uere boys.
And I was teaching them how
to do it.
Q.
This was pretty -:"1ell universal in the plant· then.
A.
Yes, all over women were paid lower.
Q.
Did the women ever talk about complaining?
A.
No, not really, the odd one but one can't do anything about it.
Q.
Did you belong to a union?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And the union didn ' t .... ?
A.
That was the wage rate and that was it.
Q.
That ' s really awful.
A.
Yes it is.
was.
Now I wouldn ' t put up with it but those days this was the way it
�Q.
Do you think tha:.' s one reason so many women were hired?
A.
No, the men had gone to the services so they had to hire women.
Once you
worked there you couldn ' t even quit unless you were pregnant.
Q.
Why not?
A.
They needed people to build the planes during the war.
Q.
What, where you on a contract then?
A.
No.
Q.
Well why couldn ' t you quit?
A.
This was where you started work, you couldn ' t work anywhere else because you
started working there because they needed you.
Q.
So you wouldn't be hired anywhere else if you .. had quit?
A.
Well you probably would because during the war years, you couldn ' t stay out
of work.
Q.
Can you describe what a typical day was?
A.
No, I lived in F. W..
Did you live on the site?
You would sign out your tools - your motor and a gun and
light and get the rivets.
Then you ' d start riveting and find where your job
was.
Q.
Did you get any breaks in the day?
A.
Oh yes, a lunch and coffee breaks - one in the morning and one in the afternoon of 10 minutes each.
Q.
Did you associate after work hours with any of the other women?
A.
Yes, on Sunday the whole department wouldlmead down to the show at the Capitol
Theatre so in the shows on Sunday night was all of Canada Car. Dancing on Sat.
Q.
Did Canada Car supply the clothes?
A.
Yes, at first we had one-piece overalls and after that there were two-piece
overalls.
We had to wear those two-piece blue uniforms with these hats to put
our hair in.
Q.
How did the men treat you?
A.
Good.
I was only 16 and I was pretty green.
A couple of married guys gave
me a book on sexs marri,,ge and birth control and I never thought about it and
I read the whole book between lunch breaks.
was awful shy but not after
They explained it all to me.
I
5 years in there.
Q.
Why was that?
A.
I don ' t know, they never treated you like girls or women.
Q.
fellow employee, that ' s all.
So other than wages, you didn't encounter any discrimination?
A.
No.
We were just another
3
�Q.
"Why did you stop working there?
A.
The war ended and that was it, everybody was.: out the next day.
Q.
What about the men, were they laid off?
A.
Yes, we all were, some wer.e hired back for the buses they were building.
My
husband ' s brother was hired back to make buses, he stayed there two more years
and then he went to the paper mill.
Q.
So you met your husband out there.
Were you familiar with what the barracks
in Canada Car were like for the women?
A.
I was just there once visiting a girl friend.
The walls were like paper is
all I could say about it.
Q.
Did you try to get another job after Canada Car?
A.
Yes, I was a telephone operator in the Fort William Telephone Exchange.
Q,
How was that different from working at Canada Car?
A.
The wages were better but I enjoyed Canada Car more.
The straight work in
the afternoon was split-shift.
Q.
The telephone operators were mostly women I guess.
A.
It was all women then.
Q.
Did you encounter discrimination in wages there?
A.
No.
Q.
Did any woman play a role in the union at Canada Car?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
There must have been but I forgot now.
A.
It didn ' t really affect me at all.
How did you feel about the union?
I couldn ' t say - I paid my union dues and that was it,
Had the odd meeting.
How did the war affect you in other ways besides going to work?
I had no brothers to go or relatives that
went overseas, it didn ' t affect me.
Q.
Did other women talk about it?
A.
Yes, a lot had their husbands killed or their brothers.
Q.
Do you know of any other war industries in Thunder Bay?
A.
There was a shell plant on Mission Island.
Q.
Did you move up the ladder when you were working since you worked for 4 years.
A.
No, I started at .42¢ and at the end of 4½-years I was getting .83¢ an hour
They called it starch work.
and we ·worked 12 hours with overtime most of the time.
time Q.
We felt bad about it.
4:30 from the afternoon to 4:30 in the morning.
income tax at first, just the last year or two.
Would you say it was satisfying work?
On Sunday was double
We didn ' t pay any
�A.
Yes, I enjoyed it.
It wasn't boring.:, it wasn ' t sitting in one spot.
You could
walk around .. At the telephone excha?:lge you always sat in one chair for 4
hours, and that was it.
This was different ..... .
Q.
Why did you walk around?
A.
Jell in that job I finished one part so I moved around to the next.
Q.
So you would rivet in all different parts of the plane.
A.
Yes, the wings and other parts.
Q.
Was there any kind of risk involved in it?
A.
Not really, on my 17th birthday there I was bending over and was drilling with
the rivet.
spot.
My hair was hanging down and it caught that and I had a big
bald
A lot of times, for fun, somebody would pull out your three-pronged
plug and put it in upside down and you woiu.d get a shock when you put the mot or
on.
It was fun - it I-mocked you on your rear end but it was fun.
.
Q.
Uas there· a feeling of camaraderie?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Why do you think they had that kind of atmosphere?
A.
Made of the --kind of people - people from all over.
The bosses didn ' t come and sit and watch you, you could joke with them.
After the war we went to
Winnipeg and we just stood there and everybody said "Hi Canada Car".
You
didn ' t know their names but you recognized their faces.
Q.
Was it the fact that you were all working on a project for the war?
A.
That had something to do with it but at the time it did.11 ' t enter our heads.
Q.
Do y ou think there should be more jobs like that for women?
A.
Yes, I liked my experience.
Q.
6,800 yes.
The paper said 700 but 7,000 worked there.
Did you ever want to go back.
Did you apply to work on the buses
or street cars?
A.
No, I 1-1orked at the telephone exchange before I married and then I had two kids
to look after so I just q_uit working.
But I ' d go back tomorrow if I could go
back to the- way it was then.
Q.
Is there anything else about working at Canada Car you can tell me?
I heard
there was a woman president or manager, because she had been an ene;ineer of
an aircraft - McGill I think was her name.
A.
I don ' t remember her at all.
Thank-you very much.
There probably was .....
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herstory: Jean Forrester
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Jean Forester in Fort William, Ontario on July 21, 1978. The interview was performed by Georgina Garrett as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project.
During the interview, Jean Forester recalls her time working for Canada Car from 1941 to 1945. Jean reflects on the discrimination in men and women’s pay, the role of the union, the types of planes she worked on, her relationship with her co-workers, and her usual work schedule. She also reflects on her time working as a telephone operator at Fort William Telephone Exchange.
The recording consists of one side of a cassette tape, available as one MP3 file. (Click on the speaker logo to play the file.) Text is available by clicking on the image thumbnail.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1978-07-21
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Audio
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Canada - Ontario - Fort William
Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used.
Subject
The topic of the resource
People
Women's History