550 10 13359 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/4552c6e5ca2f2a00dac26bf93323aca6.mp3 a1fdbff586041cc6c536102e6d5ca9d3 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/4a9137932a5e50b924250e4b2eba1b74.mp3 330c241cfc414cebf87adae2c4ec6c2a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Lillian Wolter Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Mrs. Lillian Wolter. The interview was performed as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. During the interview, Mrs. Wolter discusses working as a school teacher in Nipigon. She taught grades one through eight, was a shop-keeper for a time, and also played the organ and piano for churches and events. She details her experience trying to get a divorce from her husband. In order to do this she had to prove adultery, and she almost lost her job since she had moved in with another man before she was divorced. She also discusses community events in Nipigon and how the school would always host events for all ages. The recording consists of two sides of one cassette tape, available as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource No rights information Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Nipigon Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/8cadf7e791ed91c7c469478069965d8c.mp3 a8d89177b7c29ec37c408aacb5b3eb24 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/b824e18344d47ae6a395fabe0a35f625.pdf 25723f3037ec678a7552fa1a4f10192c PDF Text Text The interview of Mrs. & Mrs. W. Hartley Q: Uhm uhm. Mro . H: ... was a bachelor, but most of them had wives. Well, women, anyway. Some could ... well, Lars Olsen was married before he ever left Norway. And if he hadn't been married, he probably wouldn't have homesteaded here. 'Course he wouldn't have raised a family, but, I mean ... Q: They didn't have any children when they came here? Mr. H: They needed, they had to have the female to give them roots. And to have to build anything at all, or settle anywhere at all, they had to have roots. So it all, so in fact it all hinged on women in the final analysis. Q: Did they all want a farm? Mr. H: Q: Did they all want a farm? Mr. H: Q: Pardon? The women? And the men, too. Mr. H: No, no. But I mean, I'm talking in generalities. It fits these cases, but I mean, in broad generalities these ... ah, there was men who went out in the bush and started something, but to be of any permanence, it had to beo .. Q: Yeah. Mr. H: Q: .... social history of the world. Did the ah, did Olson work in a lumber camp or something? �-2Mr. H: Q: The one that originally built house? Mr. H: Q: Which Olson? No. He was .. . Sixty-eight ..... . Mr. H: ... He came from Norway. h he had been apprenticed in Norway as a turner, that's a wood turner. Q: He was married there, but And a carpenter. Is that how he built these hardwood floors, ans stuff? Mr. H: Well, the original structure of the house, the log part of it was done by these Finns, who are experts with logs and broadaxes. it And incidentally, cost a dollar a log to put this house up in those dayso Q: That's pretty expensive. Mr. H: Q: Ayh? I think that might be quite expensive. There are alot of logs. Mr. H: That was alot of money for those days, but no, there's not all that many logs. Q: They're quite .... I guess the wood was thicker. Mr. H: Ah, the wood always come from right around here. It's all Tamarac. It's resistant to rot, and came from all around here. But then, he would have done them--he did the most of the carpentry. Q: Okay, I'm just going to see if this is playing back . ... Do you mind repeating that? Mrs. H: Q: Yeah. Repeating what I said? �-3Mrs. H: Q: Well, Clara was born in ..... . Clara Olsen. Mrs. H: Yeah. Her name was Clara Christianson, and she married Lars in eighteen ninety-nine, and they came to Thunder Bay. She came with two young children, and ..... Q: When did they come to Mrs. H: Canada? Do you know? He came ah, I think it's all in there, in the book, around nineteen o-one (1901), and I think she came out in nineteen o-four (1904), and she brought two children with her. And they lived in Fort William on North Mark Street for ten years. And then he thought that the old PD railway was going to go through here .... Mr. H: Mrs. H: Mr. H: Through there. No, I thought it was down this way. The road was going to come, the piece of road that we got, the road, instead of the road where Belanger's are, this was going to be the road. Mrs. H: Mr. H: Yeah. Right through. Pearson-Pardee road. And PD was going to go along the high ground there. Mrs. H: Well, anyway, Mr. H: Mrs. H: ... they changed the route, and it went through Hymers. And so, for five years, she never left this place. Q: Except to do midwifery, and that kind of thing. �-4- Mrs. H: Oh yeah. Well then people would come to her, her daughter is Mrs. Colson, Mrs. Curtis Colson. Q: Oh, that's right, yeah. Mrs. H: And Gertie Docking is another daughter. She belongs to the south Neebing. And she , lives 7 ~ not too far from the But Gertie was Alpine. born in that corner, in there. But anyway, Clara went out, helped clear--this was all forest, and she would go out and pile things up and clear things up, and leave the children. She had some-- she must have been a marvelous mother. They speak so well of her, because she thought of ways of amusing them. that they had. Walter's found little soft balls You couldn't buy balls, so they had these made out of the old heels of socks. Or she'd tell them about the time when they were to come and call her. She'd be out working, and I guess he was in town a lot of the time. left here. She was And one day, they walked all the way down to around where Shutie's are now. I don't know whether you know that or not. Q: No. Mrs. H: Well you go down 608 ... Mr. H: (Slate?) River. Mrs. H: ... down the Oliver Lake road. The corner of the Oliver Lake road and you can go straight through there, to buy a cow. They were gone two days. They walked all the way there, and all the way �-5back; the two of them, bringing this cow. Q: The children and mother or husband .... Mrs. H: Q: The mother and the father. Oh, husband, yeah. Mrs. H: And who looked after the children, I don't know. Maybe one of the older childreno But she had her share of heartbreaks, but another thing that ... Q: How many children did she raise? Mrs. H: It's all here.(flipped through book) Mr. H; Well, little girls in those days, was six or seven or eight, started lookin' after the house, doin' housework. Mrs. H: ______ But ah ... and she would bring them porridge to bed. Now I didn't hear this until just recently that to get to, some of them slept here, and Alf, the boy, whose store you were at, slept upstairs and she had to go up a ladder. But she'd take his porridge. stove out there. She made it on a And that heated the house all night, and then she made their porridge, and brought them all porridge in bed, before they got up. And they always wanted their porridge warm, so they all sat up and ate it. Q: Breakfast in bed! Mrs. H: But imagine a woman with all that she had to do, and yet she was so wonderful with her family, and they all speak so highly of her. And she was awfully good to all her neighbours, I think. �-6Mr. H: Q: She was a doctor woman, so ... I wonder .... She was what? Mr. H: Down in (Osaks?) they called them doctor women. Midwife, and general sort of .... That book Foxfire, if you've ever read that, it--well no, yeah, Foxfire. In some parts of the States especially, the old English expression is doctor woman. Well it's a midwife and ... In those days, the doctor would come out from Fort William with a horse and buggy out here, twenty-five, thirty miles. days work for him, at least. Half a So they depended-- it had to be very serious before they went to the doctor or went to the hospital, so they depended on the local talent. Q: Naturally. Well, she was city woman, from a big city in Norway, so how did she get these skills? Mrs. H: Well, I think it was just sort of, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. her family. ~ ..... in Ingrid was eighteen when she died. She died of the flu and pneumonia, at the end of the war. Q: With that epidemic, yeah. Mrs. H: I guess they didn't--well, once again, they couldn't get out. here, .. ~nd by the time they did get a doctor o. Mro H: She'd have died in town, anyway. Mrso H; Yeah. And this Mary, one of the~ died of diptheria, Another child, she---the mother had typhoid, and �-7she lost her baby when, well, the baby was premature. And I think it lived two months or so. But it wasn't very well. So there was--out of all these, I think there were five left. Q: What, Mary, Alf,Borfield, Mrs. H: Q: Oh. Mrs. H: Q: Now this Barfield is Mrs. Colson. And the youngest was, well, the baby boy died. Why did they move to Fort William eventually, because Mr. Olson working there? Mr. H: Q: No, no. Mr. Olson died here. What year was that? Mro H: Her daughter Gertie, that lives on 61, was married to a chap named Docking, and they took over the farm. But he was away all during the war. But then he came back, they came back here, and sold-1956, wasn't it, they sold this place? Mrs. H; Yes. Mr. H: And they moved up to the Mountain road. took the old lady with them. And they The old lady died in the house, at least she died on the Mountain road, when they were living on the Mountain road. Mrs. H: But this daughter that was born here, this Gertie, is well worth talking to, because she's had a lot of ... Q: Gertie Docking, yeah. Mrs. H; ... Gertie Docking, and she lives on highway 61, just past the prison farm. Now Murray worked at �-8: :But he joined up, and the prison farm, you see. went overseas, and she and her parents ran the farm. Now she was just a young woman; you'll see pictures of her in here. Until he came home. __husband working at the country club. She's a very capable person. Q: She's sixty now? Mrs. H: Q: Yeah, she'd be sixty, but you'd never know it. And her sister's older than her, Borged? Mrs. H: Borged, yeah. here. Now this is a picture of a Christmas And this very room, when we bought this house, it was practically in the ground. Q: You didn't buy it in 1957, when they moved out, then? Mrs. H: Q: And they had it for how long? Mrs. H; Q: No, a German family moved in here. From '56 to '72. Oh yea, so you just bought it recently. Mrso H: And they really, almost, well, you'd say they abandoned it, wouldn't you? Mr. H: Mrs. H: Well, sure they abandoned it. They were going to tear it down, they didn't think it was worth fixing. Mr. H: Maybe not consciously abandon it. probably draw up some The didn't - - - -they were going to abandon the house, but it was in a state of abandonment and would never have come back and fixed it up. Never. �-9Mrs. H: Q: This is the story of the family.o. I'd like to read it. Mrs. H: Well, you can come back any time you like, or if you want to read it now. This is written by Mrs. Colson for the history book. And every story that is in this book is about families that ... Q: Oh. Are there any pictures? Mrs. H: These are the Deckings. daughter. Q: Yeah. She was the There she is. Oh, what a pretty bathing suit! Mrs. H: And this is sort of a family picture of all the families. Oh, this is the Sedwich's, but they couldn't get very much about them. But this is what this place looked like when we bought it. Q: Where did you come from? Mrs. H: You and your husband? I lived in Thunder Bay. raised there. I was born there and He came from Ottawa, but he was born in England. He grew up in Ottawa, or near Ottawa. Q: Would you say they were a fairly typical family, the Olson's, of this area? Mrs. H: Q: Yes, I would. Because, I know a lot of Scandinavians settled out here. Mrs. H: Yeah. Mrs. H: ....... I don't mean anything derogatory about them, but they're self-sufficient. They've had to be. There only meat would be what they got through hunting, so that ..... �-10- Q: What about cows and that? Mrs. H: Q: Oh yeah, they had cows. Did some of them have sheep? Mrs. H: I don't think sheep would be very practical out here. Q: I know the Kamstra's have sheep. Mrs. H: Maybe they have, but there are too many bears around. Q: Oh. Mrs. H: Even with cows they can be a danger. There's still wolves and bears. Q: What about chickens Mrs. H: ----------- Most of them still have their own chickens, but they have to provide enough to keep them going through the winter. approve of it. their survival. Q: For them, it was necessary for And ... And the women hunted too? Mrs. H: Q: So, hunting--oh, I don't I couldn't tell you whether they did or not. I know my grandmother Garrett used to carry a rifle and could shoot one. Mrs. H: Well, there have been women that have been left to raise families. It seems I heard of someone just heard about recently lef~ woman on a farm without her family and she was left with a bunch of young children, and, what else can you do? Mrs. H: ... logs, and white pine, red pine. And all through that section down where they lived, they weren't �-11- too far from the border, and so you had all these lumbar jacks, and so on. Q: So, where-abouts was the prostitution house, exactly? It says 7 -I don't know where Concession Eight and (Neebing) is. Mrs. H: Q: Well, this is Crooks. So that's closer to Fort William? Mrs. H: No, no. That's down towards the border. The last township along the American border. Q: Oh, okay. Mrs. H: So they were very close to the, not too far from the American border. Well, then you have, the Pidgeon River was used for timber, too, you see. They had all those falls .... Q: So this is woman entrepeneurs catne up from the States? Mrs. H: Q: Cecile McGuire Mrs. H: Q: Yes. McGuire, yeah. Or maybe Sicily, I guess it would be. Mrs. H: So, you see, she had a dance hall, so it was just like, well, the Yukon. They had quite a house. Now whose living there now, - I don't know, but they had all kinds of old clocks, and all kinds of antigues and things. Sunday School. Q: What a change! Mrs. H: Yes. Then it was used as a �-12Q: Is it still standing ------------- , I guess it must be. Mrs. H: Q: Yeah. But their not living there anymore .... The Held's . Mrs.H: .... , they've gone down to ah, they're living in Virginia. place now. So I don't know whose living in that We used to visit the naturalist always, made a point of calling there, because they fed birds and it was very nice, very nice area. But I think that would make a good, well, =-I would be interested . ;..... . Q: If you want to write something on that for us, we'd be glad to credit you for it. You see, what we are, are more editors than authors. We're just trying to, you know, kind of coalate the material. Mrs. H: I don't know where I'd go looking for material. People would be giving me a queer look. Q: What about the Held's? telling, I don't Mrs. H: Maybe they know more than they're know. Well, of course, as I say, they're away down in Virginia, right now. These people are very close. She ah, Mrs. Manaseau's American too. The present Mrs. Manasteau . ... hard time of it really. Q: Why do you suppose they were the pioneers? Mrs. H; Well, I can see what happens today ......... . (end of tape) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Margaret and Walter Hartley Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used. Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Mrs Margaret and Mr Walter Hartley in Neebing on December 6, 1978. The interview is a part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. The recording consists of one side of a cassette tape, available here as an MP3 file. (Click on the speaker logo to play the file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnail. Discussions centre about Clara Christiansen who married Lars Olson in 1899 and immigrated from Norway. Arriving two years after her husband, with two young children, the Olsons lived in Fort William before moving to Neebing, then built the house the Hartley’s live in. Referencing a book, the Hartleys discuss Clara raising a family, and being a "doctor woman" (midwife). One of her daughters died of the flu epidemic, one from diphtheria, and five children survived. In 1956 the family sold the place and moved to Mountain Road. Gertie Docking, (nee Olsen), was one of the daughters who grew up on the farm. Looking at pictures, the house was owned by a German family, the Sedwich’s, from 1956-1972, and abandoned. The Hartley’s bought the house and discuss the history of the farm with cows and chickens; women on the farm raising their families; and living amidst the industry boom of lumber and mines. Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-12-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/9d0e03c1b6a2becead656fbb5a5657aa.mp3 e50cd4d3bbbf71aa1e89d517371f2fc8 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/228f33ad35ca0e96ab89a3645765c26b.mp3 176c26d76985842bd6259dea59e428b2 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/250e2ceb33cd67407f2655792adcd896.pdf 387d2dcde4afa4919f4b5840770071d5 PDF Text Text HERSTORY PROJECT Mrs. Duggan interviewed by Helen Lovekin Q. Mrs. Duggan, can you tell me when you were born? A. Q. A. May 18, 1891. And you have been a lifelong Thunder Bay resident? No. I was from Renfrew County in Eastern Ontario near Ottawa. Q. A. and I lived there until I was 21. What made you come up to Thunder Bay? I came to live here in 1937, prior to that for 21 years I lived in Sc~eiber / and how I came to be in this part of the country_; I went to normal school in North Bay and under a grant that we got we were obliged to teach in the dtstricts instead of the counties. The districts started east of North Bay and so I went to normal in North Bay and I taught near Sudbury for four years and then I came to Schreiber to teach in 1916. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I was born there I was married in 1920 and I lived in Schreiber until 1937. So when you moved to Schreiber the war was on in Europe and Schreiber must have been very much a bush town. No, but it was strictly a railroad town. I recall there were six trains a day at that time. What was it like coming from Eastern Ontario into Schreiber? Well, naturally it was a complete change because in the area where I had lived in Eastern Ontario it was mostly farmland whereas Schreiber was strictly business connected with the railroad. It was an entirely different environment. Were the people there homesteaders there at that time? Not in Schreiber, anyone who lived in Schr.eiber, who had come from the east as the majority had, the men came there because of the railway. There was good work and the pay was good. Naturally they brought their wives and families with them. Q. Instead of getting land grants they lived within a town. A. Yes, the majority owned their own home, not on a _large area of land though, ------just on a lot and a garden. Q. When you came up in 1916 you had had previous experience teaching, how did you have to modify your lessons for the children up here? pletely different atmosphere they were living in. It would be a com- �e ... A. We had the Ontario Curriculum we had to follow and I can't say that it was a great deal different from what it was in other places. The only thing is that my early teaching days before I went to normal school, I was in rural schools where I had the full compliment of children, from grade one to grade eight. That was very difficult. After I went to normal school I always had senior classes and I taught grade seven usually and later grade eight. Q. Did you marry in Schreiber? A. No, I married in my home town in the east but I married a man from Schreiber. A railroad man. Q. The romance was all in Schreiber. What was it like for you to leave everything that you knew and branch off into Northern Ontario? A. Well, it was certainly vecy different in many ways - the customs were different. For one thing the people had more money to spend, there was more social life, although it was a small area. One thing that perhaps was a bit outstanding, the men were by far in the majority so of course the school teachers were rather popular at dances and so on. At least we always had a good time. Us- ually we went out a great deal throughout the week. Q. After you were married were you allowed to go on teaching? A. You didn't have to stop, but I did stop, I don't know why I did. At least I thought I stopped - I resigned - and when we were on our return to Schreiber after our honeymoon, we met a railroad man quite a distance down the line, and he said to me that they were waiting for me to get back there. I asked why and he told me that they wanted me to take the principal 's job because the principal had been sick for quite some time. There was a clergyman in charge of the classroom and he didn't like it and I don't think he was much of a compromise. When I went back , it was the pupil's that I had had in former years and of course they Imew what to expect. There was no trouble with discipline. Q. Was that quite unu~al to have a woma:m as a princip.al? A. Well , it was there. from the eve of time. d,ied. The principal who had been there must have been there He was there for a long time and was there until he At times after he died I was once again replacing the principal after I was married. After the original resident principal died, two principals at least took sick at different times so I replaced them. Q. But you were never given the position officially? A. No, but I didn't want it because I had young children after a few years and I wouldn't have been able to handle it. Q. What sort of social activities were present? �A. Card playing was very popular, in fact I was really bored with having to play cards. If you didn't you were a kind of an outlaw. Afternoon teas were also very popular, in fact many of the ladies had their visiting cards that was usual in those days and then dances occured at least every couple of weeks. Then in the summer there was a lake very close and many people had cottages there, and the lake was a great source of enjoyment there. Q. When you came to Schreiber it was 1916, there were still two more years left in World War I. A. What kind of effect did that war have on a small town? I think I should tell you that in 1918, the year the war ended, that was one of the years that the flu was very prevalent. We had an excellent doctor in Schreiber and there was only one person who died of the flu, but there were very few nurses and schools were closed for a while and we were asked to go on a volunteer basis to different homes especially if the mother was sick and the young children had to be attended to. So we went in fear and trembling and everybody that was strong and husky felt they should do their duty. doctor certainly couldn't have managed without the help. The I recall that the weather was dull and school was closed for about six weeks. In that time we went to various places - the teachers and women without children. I think there were one or two nurses and there were some women who had some nursing experience and they rounded us up and got us going on the project. Q. A. So it was a rather important contribut-ion. Somebody had to do it and after all, we were as able to do it a~~~ody else and we didn't have anyone depending on us as did the people with children. Q. In the First World War was there a lot of activity in the church groups, women's auxiliary etc. towards the war effort? A. Yes, knitting and that type of thing. Making of bandages. I don't recall that I had very much to do with that but then it was perhaps because thankfully _there were others with ,,.more experience along that line. We were quite active ~ practically everything that was put on in a social~· line. There wasn't too much going on socially because it wasn't wise for too many people to be in groups. I do recall one boy caine home from overseas and the doctor had issued an order on account of the flu thatfthere were to be no group meetings. This boy's mother had planned a big party for her son's return from overseas and she was ve-ry indigna.n,t to think that that was interfered. with. The doctor was quite strict about the rule and he was right of course. Q. In your teaching career, what salary did you start off with? �A. You'd be surprised - $JOO a year. Q. This of course would be less than the men would be making? A. I suppose, but there were very few men teachers in those days. No man in his right mind would take on teaching unless he was just going to earn some money and then go on to something else. Because if he planned on getting married how could anyone live on $JOO dollars a year? Q. How did you manage? A. The first year I paid $10 a month board and then I went to a different school in a farm area and I paid seven dollars a month fur three years. Later I got a raise of $325, It seems like an impossible way to live but you have to consider that it wasn't only the teachers who were poorly paid, it meant that nobody was making big wages and what you bought was not as expensive, anything like as expensive ... I remember buying blouses for .2.5¢ or ,50¢ and a young girl who was quite a dressmaker would go and stay at a house for maybe two or three days and do all the sewing for that season and she would probably be paid a dollar a day and room and board. It was all relative. Q. Did the climate affect you in any way? The long winters. A. I did find the winters in Schreiber exceedingly cold. On the way to school, quite often you had to face north and another thing, I had a cold classroom and often we would have to close in the morning because the heat didn't circulate as it should and besides I was on the cold side. This didn't hurt the feelings of the children any. Q. In your early years of marria·ge and having children, had you become quite climatized to Schreiber and Northern Ontario? A. Yes, I got accustomed to it and people's habits were a little different you know. In the east where I came from there were more relatives living in the same area whereas in a place like Schreiber it was mostly a young people's town with ha.r.dly any third or second generations. Naturally the older people preferred to live in the east where the climate was better. Q. You came to Thunder Bay in the '30 's you said. A. Yes, 1937 and that was the time of the Depression. Q. Could you tell me a little about that? A. Personally we never suffered very much from the Depression because of the fact that my husband had steady work, which very few people did have. Railroading is determined on seniority and my husband had enough that he always stood for work but quite frequently he would decide to take a day or a couple of days off and that gave somebody else a chance. The railroad peo:p1e are rather LI. �clanish and also very interested in, and sympathetic towards those who are Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. not able to get along. Did you resume your career? Periodically. I don't know how many times I went back between 1920 and when I moved here, but I was back several times. As I say I was back right after we came from our honeymoon for three months and then I was back several times and then we carne here in '37 and I think about two years later I was at the boarding school for a while, somebody suddenly became sick and I was there replacing. I did go back in '43 for a year down at the East End at a separate school - St. Joseph's. In 1945 my husband died and I went back steadily from then on until 1968. I went to the sanitarium to teach in 1945 - a tuberculosis sanitarium on the outskirts of town - and there were a great many children there, mostly Indian children. The odd white child but not too many. Then the adult Indians were just like children because many of them came from places where :they had no education and many of them I taught to write and to do arithmetic etc. I stayed at the sanitarium for seven and a half years and then I was out on Arthur St. for six months waiting for the build:¢ing of a new school on the Indian reservation. I went there in '53 and I stayed seven years. What was it that made you choose the mission schools in particular? For one thing, I wasn't as young as some of the other teachers, when I taught at the mission school I was a civil servant and the government generally pays better than the separate schools - and of course being a Catholic I couldn't teach in a public school. It was quite attractive to me because by that time my family were all away and I was able to live there due to living quarters. I must say that it paid me in the long run because ever since I left there I have been getting a pension. Aside from the monetary aspects of teaching at the mission, you were there for a good part of your career .. ?Was there something that attracted you to that type of work? Yes, I enjoyed it. I found the Indian children very easy to teach - some of them were more brainy than others - you ,find that every place you go. Some of them were more mischeivous than others too. On the whole, I had wonderful support from the parents - naturally because I was a government representative and nobody interfered with my discipline. I feel that I gave them something that perhaps nobody else was willing to give - nobody was interested.. The �majority of teachers, when they start in a city school they stay there, but I was free to change if I wanted so the - Mr. Mciver who died some years ago was the member of Parliament here and so he told me that this new school was being built with all the modern accomodations and that if I was interested., he would help me get it. got it. I suppo-se my record was fine or else I would.n 't have I was there for quite a few years and the one thing I found when I went there was that many of the Indian people had a defeatist attitude that because they were Indian they couldn't get anywhere. I drilled into the children that anybody of any nationality can get anywhere but it has to be through their own efforts. All you have to do is drive out to Chippewa and see the lovely homes and many of those homes are occupied by some of my former pupils. Q. So there is a great deal of satisfaction? A. Yes, I do feel satisfaction. The chief is a former pupil and so is his wife. They invite me to their different activites etc. I feel that I had a good relati:onship with them and of course it's like everything else, you get the kind of treatment you deserve. If you go out there with the snobby idea that you are so much better than somebody else, you won't get very far. I went there to teach the children and I did it as conscientiously as possible. Q. You sound like a person who has a lot of energy and goes into something with a very open mind. A lot of people who did come up from Southern Ontario into Northern Ontario had a snobby attitude and it could be manifested. more severly in teaching the mission schools. Insofar as women's activities went did you have anything to do with the women's organizati01s? A. You mean the Indian women's organizations? The Indian women were not really well organized. but what we did have were the Girl Guides. Guides - the women to come and start the group. I got the Girl We would have a tea every so often and the children learned how to set a table and I had taken a lot of my own things from my own home out there with me, so I had my tablecloths and my silver and the odd things. I showed them how to use them and serve and I think the children got a lot out of that. They got something out of it and they have shown over the years with - I've been invited to various activities and you certainly can tell that they know how to serve and act like anyone else. I don't take the full credit but I mean they do observe how other people do things and naturally they learn from others. Q. You did belong to the Catholic Women's League did you not? �A. Y.e s. Q. Could you tell me something about that? A. Naturally I had belonged to the Catholic Women's League in a smaller town too, when it was initiated.. Then when I caine here - I think the League started in 1921 in this area - we had a League in Schreiber and then when I came here, I'm sure I wasn't here a year when I was nominated as secretary, no,treasurer of the League. I was on the board for years, and I was on the diocesyn which means a larger area. circle. In the league there is the local group and then a wider I used to attend as a delegate the various conventions. At that time the head of our diocese was North Bay and now we have a Bishop here ~ but then we didn't have a Bishop and I was the delegate appointed to go to conventions but I don't think I waslappointed because I was smarter than anyone else, I went because I had a CPR pass. Q. What was the function of the Catholic Women's League? A. The slogan is "For God and Canada", so we tried to do anything we could to help the clergy. Many people teach catechism and I've done that quite a bit. In a small place like the rieservation, one of our projects was to raise some money by carpeting the ............. but that didn't have anything to do with the C,W.L. that was just one of our projects, that we did with the children. With the C. W.L. we had a hand in the Depression by packing clothes and we got a special rate on the railway and sent the clothing out west to the people who were desperately hard up. During the war, people made bandages and did quite a lot to help the soldiers, especially packing kits and parcels so that they got a treat from home every so ofteu. We had the names of all the boys who belonged to the congregation and everyone of them got a parcel. Those were some of the things done in war time and of course there has been a great deal done in giving burseries and awards to children who otherwise couldn't be able to go on to a higher education. Q. Does the C.W.L. set itself any goals that it wishes to achieve for soci.e ty? For instance, you must have had a lot to do with St. Joseph's Hospital. A. Yes, quite a number of the ladies who are members of the C.W.L. and are on the Auxiliary for St. Joseph's Hospital. and helped with teas etc. Naturally they made contributions Right now the C.W .L. are -very active in the abortion :problem - they are very opposed to that of course, it is against the teachings of the Church and so the C.W.L. are strong in opposition to abortion. In every group or in every tmm there are poor people and the poor are helped. We -, . �have rummage sales and people who rave a lot of children and haven't much money can come and get a whole box of clothes - the clothes might be worth $15 and they would pay a dollar. When I was· on the Indian reservation, the clothes that were left over from a couple of the churches were sent out to me and then we'd have a ten cent sale. We felt that having the people pay a little gave them a little more dignity, than to just say 'here, have this" . There again they would pro~ably get a box full of clothes for a quarter. Q. When you were teaching on the reservation and at the same time you were involved in the C.W.L. did you feel a lot of distance between yourself and the Indian women? A. It's a bit hard to get very close to some, fortunately I taught at the sanitarium previous from going to the Indian reservation and one woman from the reservation was a patient at the sanitarium and I got to know her quite well. She had gone to school in town and when I went to the reservation, I felt that there was somebody I knew and her husband was very, very good as far as any repairs or anything like that, I just had to send someone to bring him overrto look at the problem. pairing anything. I am completely useless when it comes to re- One particular item I always noticed about him, he never came to the school alone, he always brought one or two of his children with him. That was for my protection because there were neighbors around who didn't have the best thoughts and no way would he expose me to their criticism. I admired him so much for doing that, I didn't ask him to do that, I never told him that I noticed it, but I certainly had a great deal of admiration for him. He was a lot younger than I was and he and his wife used to come over in the evening to the school and he was very brilliant -in mathematics and I would get him to do rational problems on the blackboard, which I knew he enjoyed doing. Q. What was his wife like? Were you close at all? A. I was fairly close to the wife and she used to do my hair. nice person and ve-;cy socially inclined and friendly. entertainment at Christmas .... ~ ...... then put an imitation flame on it. She was a very We had a beautiful We covered the barrels with red and The people really enjoyed our Christmas pariies and another thing about the Parks Board, Mr. Art Widinol? especially, he was in charge of the Parks Board at the time and he used to bring the treats for everybody, They came from Squaw Bay, from that school and our own, we had two schools in the mission. �Q. How much co-operation was there between the women - you told me about Schreiber and about how the women managed to ward off the flu epidemic by the healthy ones taking care of the sick, you mentioned working with the C. W. L. and you mentioned you worked as a teacher/in the reservation. Would you have wished for more determined co-operation? A. No, I really was surprised by the amount of co-operation. Sometimes - Indian women won't push themselves - so sometimes you might have to suggest, but they were ver:y willing. They would have thier children dressed the way I want etc., so no, I can't say that I ever lacked help. Q. The C. W.L. was quite a unified group? A. Yes. We al.so had a group that would put on skits every so often. It took a lot less time to put on a skit than to put on a real play so often for our purposes we would use skits. al. but many laughs. We would have a skit with vecy little rehears- Certainly were given great encouragement and always asked to come back for more. Q. You found lots of avenues to explore. A. Yes, perhaps I should tell you about the boy when I was at St. Joseph's Boarding School, after I left the reservation. In 1960 I thought that well, I was getting on in years and I really tire, but the sisters had been asking me to go to St. Joseph's Boarding School on account of my long connection with the Indians. They knew I would understand the children. I went and stayed there eight years after I was supposed to retire, every year the Westfort Kiwanis in order to encourage children, and make them aware of the forest, they offered a prize for the best piece of art that showed how to prote·a t the forest. Children of all the schools were asked to co-operate so at the school they had never heard of that before, so I talked to my superior about it and she agreed. We did enter the competition and out of over 2,900 entrants, one was chosen aqthe best. The name of the chUd who did it and the school he attended was on the back and it was not visible to the judges so nobody knew whose work::.it was. The next day I had a call from a man who bel.tnged to the Kiwanis and he told me that one of my pupils won the prize. The boy had drawn a man sitting, and protecting the little animals and he did an excellent job and so they chose that. the Exi bition. The prize was a trip with an adult to Toronto and I was the adult. This boy came from a reservation way up by Armstrong and he was the eldest of a very large family and it just didn't seem the thing to ~~o. For some reason they decided that if he was going to get �very much out of the Exhibition, that I should go with him. They phoned and asked me if I would go and I said that if it was going to be for his welfare I '11 go. Mr. Badani was our member at the time. I wrote to him because I was working for the Federal Government, and I told him what the situation was and the conditions and he alerted somebody in Toronto and next to the Queen, we had the best service. We were at the Exhibtion, everything was handed to us, we· stayed at the King Edward Hotel, we had our pictures taken, and we were on T. V. there. We got plenty of publicity and it was an achievement which I am sure made the Indian children aware of their own potentialities. r,. did something for the whole district, to Imow that one of them could do that. Q. Do you think that women's roles in society have changed very much, and if so do you think that the changes were for the better or for the worse? A. They've certainly changed and of course women are better educated now than when I was growing up. On the other hand, if you judge by results, I think that the women of fifty years ago produced better children, more responsible children. Q. But surely that is not their only function - to produce children. A. No, I don't mean that but if you were to judge them that way I think that well, discipline has changed and that has an awful lot to do with the way the child turns out. I think many women of today are doing an excellent job soc- ially, I don't mean in society, I mean in trying to benefit the underdog. The underpriviledged etc. , I think the younger women are to be greatly admired for the way that they really are trying. Naturally you are going to find a certain number who are self-centered, there will always be that. I think on the wh.ole, women a.re very conscious of their obligation to their fellow men. Q. That is refreshing to hear. Quite often, we have received very negative com- ments as to how young women are today. Circumstances have changed. Criticism of working mothers for .e xample, young women can't afford to stay home if they a.re able to work. A. I think the majority of older people have a tendency to talk about the good old days. I've lived a good many yea.rs and the good old days weren't so good at all. Women naturally didn't get out and do things as today but you see, they didn't have the equipment in the home to make things any easier for them. It took them all day to do their work. I have no patience with women �who spend their afternoons in the beer parlor. But I think that is a minority. When I see my own daughters, they '11 drive their children here, and drive them there, so that they can take part in worthwhile activities and other women are doing the same thing. There are a great many women who are giving a great deaJ. of time to, volunteer work. That certainly is very commendable I think. I do find that it is generaJ.ly older women who sit back and won't do anything, of course you have lots of time to criticize then. Criticism should be con-- structive and if you can see that things should be different why not go and suggest that you will have time and give them help to do it? Q. If you were to become involved as a young woman in a project right now, in something in society right now, what would you like to do? A. As long as it wasn't work - I'm not fond of work. brains and I like to make people happy. I like to work with my rhere are a lot of serious things in this world and I think if you can do something to make people happy that's good. Some women have a pretty tough time, they work aJ.l day and perhaps work at home and often don't get any co-operation, I think that if I had any choice it would be entertainment - but it wouldn't cost anything to produce or attend. Q. Did you know that there was a play just formed recently and it was an aJ.1femaJ.e play and aJ.1-femaJ.e audience as well. 'rhat was just two weeks ago. It was a group of women who had just decided to do something, and I think they are doing it again in August. A. We just recently had the C.W.L. convention here and I was one of the characters and it was really just a show of hats but they introduced me as an 87 year old. I feel that I am young at heart - everybody has pains and aches whether you are young or not so what is the use of talking about them if somebody else has them too. I think that senior citizens today never had. it so good. It annoys me to hear them say that they don't get anything for this or that. There is plenty funded to senior citizens to live on if they are not spendthrifts and foolish with their money. As far as income for senior citizens is concerned, you have to realize whose pocket it's coming from - my children and grandchildren are paying for the comfort that I have here. children and grandchildren are doing the same thing. Everybody else's All you have to do is hear of conditions in other countries and think how fortunate we are. pension is $145 monthly The - they say that the basic salary should be about $300 but you can apply for increases and then of course the rent sidized buildings is geared on income. in these sub- After all, if you have reached retire- ID . �ment age and have never saved any money, you 're not going to start saving it after that either. You take the wages in the last twenty yea:rs or so, they've been good and surely people of 65 must have something ahead of them. My parents had to live without any old age pension and they had to save for their old age. If they are absolutely irresponsible with their money well than naturally the cheque isn't going to last long. Thank you for talking with us. \t. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Mary Erne Duggan Description An account of the resource An oral history interview done by Helen Lovekin with Mrs. Mary Erne (Maher) Duggan in Schreiber. The interview is a part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available here as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnail. The interview uses language that may no longer be considered appropriate, and discusses the schooling of Indigenous children. In this interview, Mary Erne Duggan reflects on her life and career. She was born in 1891 in Renfrew County, and moved to Schreiber in 1916 as a teacher. She married in 1920 and had children, continuing to teach occasionally after that. She moved from Schreiber to live in Thunder Bay from 1937-1968. In 1945, her husband died and she maintained her career in education. The interview focusses on Mrs. Duggan's teaching and the cultural changes she witnessed through her career. She taught in schools in North Bay, near Sudbury, in Schreiber, and in Thunder Bay at the Sanitorium, the Mission School (1953-1960), and St. Joseph's Residential School (1960-1968). In her interview, Mary Erne Duggan reflects on WWI, the flu epidemic of 1918, the Depression, and WWII, and her identities as a teacher and as a member of the Catholic Women's League. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Schreiber Canada - Ontario - Thunder Bay Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Interview is released with permission of Mary Clare Massicotte, granddaughter. https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/1690071e6b95bcd824a9769e450c4549.mp3 1247d40a046f7a13647619b30603b6cb https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/a8bfe6fa8bb733add91208fa7fe85f9d.mp3 e5dc5c3bb17141deb98c760a67343d23 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Maryon Kantaroff Description An account of the resource An oral history record from artist and women's advocate, Maryon Kantaroff. The presentation is a part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available here as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The tape records a presentation by Maryon Kantaroff at the Northwestern Women's Conference, April 6th 1973. Maryon shares that women’s movements have the potential to change relationships with others and with oneself. Maryon talks about radical feminism in relation to selflessness, and the importance of speaking up for oneself as a woman. The presentation recants her personal experience in joining the Canadian Women’s Movement and consciousness for camaraderie. The talk is a critical look at the history of social oppression and the power patriarchies have to shape identity. Tracing significant historical events through her discussion of gender, sexuality, religion and culture, the talk by Maryon emphasizes the importance for women to work together for widespread cultural change. Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-06 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/d812565a47da4532b8f34f14f825c783.mp3 bba9a61181158e5faeaade3936e42147 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/b75d6a16dd4825750cf9d704917046af.mp3 8320be2d79e4c71613bbd11ac4fde03f https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/ed8b4e5887daa92ac1e8349e70d36778.pdf a63701dfa86f6daa6dd2dc5a30abcc9e PDF Text Text Mrs. Stepanik, Kenora Interviewers: ' H.: Mrs. H.: Mrs. H.: Mr s . H.: Mrs. I Helen Lovekin and Karen Dubinsky. When were you born? S.: 1905 in the old country, in a village. In the Ukraine? S.: Yes, I'm Ukrainian. What year did you come to _can.u.iadu..ca,1,-;?~ - - - - - - - - - - - - S. : 1924 ---· Did you come by yourself? S.: By myself. Yes, I come to Canada. I was 17 years old when I came to Canada. H.: Why? Mrs. S.: Because my brother. I walted to. Everybody said that's good to Canada. I come too. H.: What did you think when you came? Mrs. S.: I was not used to it. Not much people come yet who can talk Ukrainian. H.: You couldn't speak English. Mrs. S. English and I go to work to Jew's place. I stay one winter to Winnipeg, and I just have $15. In a month. H.: Where did you live? Mrs. S.: I 1ive to Winnipeg. I have a sister and I 1ike to ~linnipeg. I stay that place where I work. H.: What kind of work did you do? Mrs. X (neighbour): Housework. Mrs. S.: Yah, housework. I make it dinner, and supper and cleaned house and she had the kinds. I think I did not stay too long in Canada. After winter, I come to Kenora. ,ije (the boss) is moved to Kenora because he was working on a supply trade and I come to Kenora. I go to working in a hotel, commercial hotel. ~It's now the Kenwood. After I found more Ukrainian people here down at the Ukrainian -~_ig_s_Sn.d.e.t-y . -·----------H.: Did you enjoy it? ' Mrs. S.: I enjoy it. I go to sing there. Karen: Was there a Ukrainian Hall here? Mrs. S.: Yah, an or~anization. I played in plays there. You know at that time, there was not television not radio . . Neighbour: But plays in other words. Concerts and plays, comicals, of all sorts, you know. K: There's a lot of research in Thunder Bay about the Ukrainian Labour Temple there. Neighbour: Ukrainian Labour Temple is not associated at all with the Ukrainian Labour Society. At all. Temple is a Communist group. Labour Society is all Ukrainians, Catholics, say Greek orthodox, but they're religious. Labour temple does not recognize no churches. K.: But as far as the activities, they'd be similar. There'd be plays and dances. Neighbour: Labour Temple would be more in the Russian style and say they would have meetings which they would bring from Winnipeg that's propagandaLet's put it that you. You know. Instead of the real thing. H.: Tell me what part did you play in the Ukrainian Ladies Society. Did you act in the plays? Did you sing? Mrs. S.: Yes. H.: Can you tell me about it? Did you enjoy it? �Page 2 Mrs. S. Yes. Yes. I was in plays and I was President. N.: She was a president. For how many years? For how many years were you a president? Mrs. S.: 12 years in the Ukrainian Women's Association. H.: Did it make a difference to you? Were you very lonely until this Association. You had friends? Mrs. S.: You know I had small kids and my kids I teach Ukrainian school. Ukrainian school, there and Ladies society. I teached my kids there the Ukrainian. I talk to my kids Ukrainian, because I want to know that my kids talk Ukrainian. My kids told me lots of time, my daughter, you talk to me English and I'll teach you and say to you English. You no talk Ukrainian. You know I was interested. I know I like how eve;Jything 90. I like Ukrainian. Did you see this here? K.: So It was important to you to that your family kept their Ukrainian culture and the society helped you in that. Neighbour: She also is the Senior Citizen president at the moment at the hall too. Mrs . S. : Ya h. N.: And that's the part she takes. She has all her life. Mrs. S.: I like it. And I like people. I like to go out. I like to workin~ for organisationyou know. I like it, miss and I enjoy it. Because I'm not lasted. I have my people. N.: You have your heritage in other words. H.: When you first came out·here, you were single. Not married. (No) and you married in Canada. (In Canada) Mrs. S. : 1926. H.: That's only two years after you came, isn't it? (Yah) And he was a Ukrainian as well? Mrs. S.: My husband, yah, he's Ukrainian. William Stepanik. I meet him in the Hall, Ukrainian Society. H.: In the Hall? Mrs. S.: I meet him there. H.: What was it like then for you to be able to associate with young men? Were you allowed to talk to them openly? How did you see each other? Dancing, or what? Mrs. S.: Yah, -we dancing. This time we have a, you know he was playing in a (how do you say that) Neighbour: He was playing in the plays, in the plays, you know. Mrs. S.: In the same play. H.: In the play. So you were both in the play. I see. Mrs. S.: We believe to there. H.: So you shared a lot of ideas. (Yah) Mrs. S.: 1925 - We, not married yet, and believed (belonged) to that organization. H.: How many children did you have? Mrs. S.: Three - two girls, one boy. One, my daughter, down in ~lindsor, my son in Kenora, L&K grocery. (He have there two blocks from here) (Oh,yes) And my daughter die. You know. She's married and she stay next door. We builded house here and after she's sick. She have some sickness. N.:Hodgkin disease. Mrs. S.:Hodgktn disease. H. : We 11 . Mrs. S. : And she leave two boys, two kids. Helen.: So you have grandchildren as well. Mrs. S.: Yah, I have ten grandchildren. H.: And so. Ten? That keeps you busy, uh. �Page 3 Mrs. S.: No, he is not Kenora here. He is Winnipeg now. That kid's (of) my daughter. He come to see me. (Oh) Yes. Neighbour: He's a doctor of Science in Denmark now. Mrs. S.:WEll, my grandson, -my son's son, he's a teacher, some doctor. He go to Denmark. H.: Did you have your children in Kenora at home. Mrs. S.: Yah, and my son, Billy, and Lascia. Neighbour: But she's asking you if your children were Mrs. S.: Yah, yah. At home. That's right. H.: Not in a hospital. Mrs. S.: Not in a hospital. That's right. Because I'm scared - go in a hospital. H.: You're probably right. Mrs. S.: Maybe might change my babies. K.: Did a lot of women have their children at home? Neighbour: Oh yes. All the time. I had mine at home too. Mrs. S.: It's at home. And ... I live here past 51 years the same place. This house. Just I go married and I stay the same place. That's 51, will be 52 January 26, - I just get married, moving here and stay here and my husband have a mother and father. I stay with mother and father. H.: Did you like that? ----...... Mrs. S.: Yah, I like it. H.: You liked his parents. \ Mrs. S.: Yah, I like it. Mother very good to me because I'm not going to the hospital she's look at (after) me. ' H.: So your mother-in-law delivered your baby. Is that how it worked \ in most families? Did most mother-in-laws help their daughters with the babies? Neighbour: There's mid-wives. There was mid-wives. H.: YQu had the mid-wives as well. But it's better to have it within the family. Mrs. S.: Yah. She looked to me. This time I got to stay eight days in bed. Don't get up. This time just I have a baby. K.: Can you tell us, when you moved to Kenora, you met some Ukrainian people. N.: Two yearsafter she was here. -----Mrs. S.: Just one wintertime stay to Winnipeg. In the summertime, I think June 6th, I moved to Kenora. K.: And did you find when you came here that the Ukrainian people would have much to do with the English people and with the Swedish people and whatever, or did you stay in your own little groups? Mrs. S.: Oh no, you mixed. I meeted. I meeted. Lots of people. I have lots of people in my village from old country. From Kenora. N.: But you mixed with the English people as well. Mrs. S.: Oh yes, I wanted to meet. N.:Sure you did. Mrs. S.: And they are friends. Girls. They are Swedish girls. Zena. I liked that. N.: And worked with her as well. Mrs. S.: And one Czechoslovakian, one Ann. I working and talking and eat. I have lots of fun because I teach myself I want to talk little bit to English and that boss Jew. You know. Katz he's called. A Jew. And he's very good. He's just like father to us. Night time he come to look at that there be not boy in our room, that we sleeping, that _.,,,, we goo some place. \ �Page 4 Neighbour: Guardian in other words. Mrs. S.: Yah. (Laughter) He worried to us. H.: Tell me, can you remember about the depression? In the 30 s? 1930? Can you tell about how it was for you then? Were all your children born then? Mrs. S.: Yah, my one born 1927, and boy, 1928, in the fall time, my boy now, and daughter, 1933, Susie born. Neighbour: That's when I came here. Yah. ~Je came to this house. - - -.. . . And that's when I knew her. H.: So can you recall anything about the depression? Mrs. S.: Yah, I know. My husband working at that time in the mill. Yah. Fl our mi 11 . H.: Did it get closed down? Mrs. S.: No, not closed down, just not much work. N.: (Three days a week) Mrs. S.: You know what I do! I haven't got for kids (how you call it) diapers - yah - and I haven't got so I do with small bag. N.: Sugar and rice. Mrs. S.: Small one, with the flour. You know, we have the small bags. N.: Sugar bags. Mrs. S.: And with sugar bag, I make it for me diapers. H.: I see. I understand. The sugar bags for the babies. And so you had it pretty rough. That's hard not to find diapers. N.: She had cows and she had pigs ... H.: You kept animals. N.: I remember all these things you know ... Mrs. S.: I keeped cows. I keeped chickens. Because this road not road. Just bush, here. And I selled milk for 10¢ a quart and I haved milk for kids, and eggs for kids. H.: So you never had to worry about eating. Mrs. S.: No. Just not money. H.: Just no money. (Yah) But as long as you had a house, then you had this house. And you had food. It wasn't as bad with no money. I K.: Did you ... you never had to go on relief then in the derpession. Mrs.S.: Oh, yah, relief. We had some relief. ~ N.: But did you have to go. Mrs. S.: Not long. (Not long.) Not long. K.: And that would just help you out buying things. Mrs. S.: Just he have the slip to the grocery store. H.: Winter would be very difficult though because the vegetables are not growing then. N.: She had her own. You had your own vegetables from the garden. Mrs. S.: Potatoes. I had some yeah. H.: So for you the depression wasn't as bad as for some people. Mrs. S.: No not so bad because I haved something from garden, milk and eggs. H.: And your husband didn't have to work on the highway. He could work in the mill. Mrs. S.: No he not working that mill. He work in flour mill. Then we go to married. We not go for honeymoon because no money, no time. H.: Stay in the house. Mrs. S.: Stay in the house because next day he had to go to work. H.: Did you like staying in the house all the time. Mrs. S.: Oh no. I like daughter now. The style changed. I don't want it that my kids have the same as just I had. You know. H.: What do you want? Mrs. S.: This better now. My kids had school, grandchild, and he's had money. And he's go for honeymoon when he get married. 1 �Page 5 H.: So he can enjoy his life a little bit. Mrs. S.: Yes. It's better now. (UH HUH) It's better now for me too. H.: How? Mrs. S.:Because. N.: Is it .... Mrs. S. I have a pension now. I am a widow. My husband die. H.: So you have a pension ... Mrs. S.: He made a house for me, you know, my husband. I have a pension I have a little bit money in the bank, you know. Just have to eat and paid everything to my expenses. And just have kids, not too far, and kids come to see me. And go to Windsor to my daughter. (Good) And my daughter married. I am there. And I go to wedding.to my daughter's son to Winnipeg. He just married. He stay to Winnipeg. H.: Well, when you were young, you had to stay in the house. You had your babies very close didn't you? (yah) One right after another? Mrs. S.: Yah, I stay in the house. H.: Did sometimes you feel you couldn't stand staying in the house any more? You had to go out. Mrs. S.: My mother stay. My mother-in-law stay with the baby. H.: Ah, so she was very good with you. And when you went out, would you go and do work with the Ukrainian Ladies Association.(uh, huh) Was this your recreation? Mrs. S.: I leaved my husband with the kids. Sometime the kids. H.: You left your kids with the husband. Good for you. That's good. Mrs. S.: After, he was working in the sheds and they pay better. You know we had money. He wanted to save money for the kids so kids go to school. And he give the music to kids, you know. My daughter, piano. My daughter have it. We keep it here. Piano. You know he go to piano lessons. H.: Did you ever go back to the old country? Mrs. S.: Me? (UH HUH) Mrs. S.: No. Never. H.: Would you ever waat to? If somebody said, ... Mrs. S.: Nah, I just want to go to visit there. H.: Not to live there. Just to visit. But you'd like to go back and see your family. Neighboar:But she couldn't go see her family because I applied ..... Mrs. S.: In my village, Just I born there. N.: But they won't let you. Mrs. S.: And he don't let me go there. N.: You just have to go to the city and they would meet you for three days ... Mrs. S.: Yah, I like to go. H.: Because what I would like to know is how happy have you been in Canada.You think it's been a good place for you . . Mrs. S.: Yah, Canada, good place for me. I am free here. Free country. I like Canada. H.: You like Kenora. Mrs. S.: Yah, and my kids born in Canada. I have my family here you know kids, and grandchild, and I never go stay there. H.: Nevergo back to live. K.: Can I ask you why in the first place you wanted to come to Canada? Was it, you ~eard it was better ... Mrs. S.: Better in Canada, yah K.: As far as you could get a job, that kind of stuff like that? �Page 6 N.: Living was better. Living was better. K.: Did you come here with the intention of staying here or you just wanted to come and visit? Mrs. S.: No I thinking to stay here. This is better than old country. Old country you know, that time, people not have it very good because you had to go work. If you had not got much land, you had to go work for somebody. N.: For 50¢ a day. Mrs. S.: Yah, and here, was better. K.: And when you got here did you think it was better.? Did you like it here, Mrs. S.: I like it here Canada. Canada? K.:When you first got here though. Mrs . S. : Yah, I 1i ke it. I 1i ke it. K.: What did you think of the country? Mrs. S.: What did you think of the country? {Neighbour translates in Ukrainian What did you think of the country) i Mrs. S.: Oh. I think is better in Canada. Just not old country. Better here. Better here. K.: In the winter? I 1 m thinking of stuff like the weather and things like that. Mrs. S.: Weather. Oh, I'll tell you. Weather nice there. And you I have apple trees, prunes, everything, everything, fruit you have it I there. I have it fruit there in old country. I K.: What did you think of the first winter you spent here? That must have been pretty .... I Mrs. S. : Ah, I don I t 1i ke it. Too cold. K.: I guess you got used to it now. Mrs. S.: I'm used to it now. I'm used to it. H.: We've talked a bit about the depression. Can we move on to the second World War? Do you remember the Second World War. Did you have sons that would be old enough to enlist? Mrs. S. : No. H.: NO? Not old enough?yet? 1920's. Oh yes that's right. Mrs. S.: I am ... just war started. N. : Her son is younger than her .jb 1des t daughter. H.: It started in 1939. Mrs. S.: No. No. Nothing. Nothing in Canada. K.: But did you, did, say the Ukrainian Women's Group, I did they do volunteer work in the war? N.: Yes.Yes. Yes. I K. What kind of stuff did you do? Do you remember? I N.: Oh they knitted. and you know .. Mrs. S. : Sewing. N.: Sewing. Gloves and mitts and scarves and stuff like that. Mrs. S.: Look at how many cushions I have. H.: They're beautiful. {I like it.) They really are. N.: During the depression, they had some kitchen set up in the hall. I Yes. For the people who didn't have anything to eat. Mrs. S.: Yah, we had. We had ... You know one time I go to Red Cross and bringed some stuff and we signed pajamas for the kids and the shorts. K.: So there was a lot of {sewing) ... co-operation Mrs. S.: Yah co-operation for everybody. K.: Did you, I guess, through the women's group, you had a lot of co-operation between other women. -i ----- ' I I / �Page 7 Mrs. S.: Yah, yah, we do. K.: Did you appreciate that? Mrs. S.: I'm appreciate. I am like---=--=-----,,-· Everybody listen to me and you I am president, she vice-president and secretary and cashier and we do. We do fine. We do good co-operation. Just go to like it. H. : Good. Do .... Mrs. S.: Are you opened ... N.: Yes, you're on. H.: Yah, we're talking Mrs. S.: Holy Cow. K.: That just helps us remember what you've said. H.: We can't write ... Mrs. S.: You can't write everything. That's O.K. He no talking bad. K.: We'll shut it off if you want to say something juicy. Mrs. S.: That's O.K. H.: And we'll take away her pen. Can you remember though, did you hear anything about the second World War? I Mean like what kind of information were you getting? Can you remember how you felt about it? Mrs. S.: I think was bad. H.: Yes. Well. I bet you a lot of people would agree. Mrs. S.: And uh, and uh, that war started in old country there. You know. I go to the Russia. And German coming. We lived in we village and we go back where is not shooted. N.: But she's talking about Canada. H.: Well, also you know, that would be her village and you'd have feelings about that. Mrs. S.: I'm cry this time. I just small yet. You know. (Oh Yes) We taked clothes and we moved, oh maybe, two villages back, because, You know Zbruch, H.: NO. Mrs. S.: You know that, what you call it, just a minute, ....... . River Zbruch, we not too far from there. And Russia, there. You know where Russia started. I live in a , not far from there, (Near Russia in other words) in my village, you know. H.: So that's close. Mrs. S.: And that shooted from there Russia, my village. And my village shooted back. H.: Oh, so you're shooting back .. Mrs. S.: Yah. N.: You protect yourself Mrs. S.: I know. H.: Did you lose family? They would be involved. They're so close. Mrs. S.: I have my mother and sister. After I'm go to Canada. N.: But not during the war. H. : NO. MRs. S.: Not in the war. Just mine sister to move to Russia. And the other one? Other same I think. N. : ....... . Mrs. S.: You know, is moved to Russia. My sister, my sister and my sister's N.: But did they have to, or were they forced to? Or did they want to go themselves ... Mrs . S. : NO. No. No. N.: They went on their own? Mrs. S.: No we believe to some organization and we moved there, my sister and my sister's son and daughter. N. : Oh I see. Mrs. S.: You know that time, just War started and my father, he is gone �Page 8 -to the other village, maked flour there. We had to (in Ukrainian, she said he went to grind flour) and starts laughing. Ha. Ha. Ha. I can't talked. I explain to you. N. : Fl our mi 11 . Fl our mi 11 . Mrs. S.: Flour mill and my father go there and my father did not come back. Russia take it to him the other ... the other ... N.: He never returned Mrs. S.: He never come back. I never see him again. H.: Your father was gone. Your two sisters had moved to Russia. So there's just your mother and your other sister left in the old country. Mrs. S.: No I haved more sisters. I have in the family seven sisters andthree brothers. H.: Big family. Did your mother teach you anything that you think helped you? In your new life in Canada? Mrs. S.: No. She no teach me in Canada. She teach me in old country. H.: Yes. But what do you think she taught you? N.: Translates question. Mrs. S.: Oh yah, she taught me watch yourself. Don't go nobody. With nobody if you don't know nobody. Yah, yah, my mother teach me that. K.: How did she feel about you moving here.? I guess she was said to see you go. Mrs. S.: She know our brother's here. We stay with our brother's. K.: I ... She figured you'd be safe with your brothers. Mrs. S.: Yah. Yah. My older brothers. K.: What about the voyage across. That must have been pretty terrifying. I would think so. Mrs. S.: Oh well. Lots of people there. I not scared. K.: Did you land in Montreal and take a train ... Mrs. S.: In Montreal yah, K.: And take a train. Mrs. S.: Not land. Goes boat. K.: Oh yes. Boat. Boat. And from there you go on a train. Mrs. S.: After on the train. I had company. Lots of company. Two girls and kept company with those girls. H.: So the three of you, all single girls, no husbands, Mrs. S.: No, no husbands, H.: So the three of you were all going to Winnipeg and you went together. Mrs . S. : Ya h. H.: That was good. Mrs. S.: Yah, that's good. H.: So you think there's ... That's a lot of co-operation again. Mrs. S.: I come to Winnipeg and I stay at a station at ......... (Gabaraith?) because my brother worked in a section at .......... and some lady coming and she see that I stay there and I don't know what I had to do --just stay there to Winnipeg in the station and she come to me and talked to me. �Page 9 N.: She's thinking of women ..... and you're thinking of women's liberation and all that ... K.: Well, women that are working outside their homes N.: Outside the home and not looking after their children like if you had children, you worked, and they get a baby sitter or take it to a .... H.: Well no that's not exactly it. Right now, a lot of people have to work. K.: I just mean in general, I mean women are more active now in public things like yourself. Mrs. S.: Yah. N.: She was always active so I ... you know. Mrs. S.: I know that time, I looked more for kids and now look at the young people .. H.: Good. Mrs. S.: Because I never leaved my kids home and go someplace. I leaved my kids, I know, I leaved with somebody good for them. (In good hands) In good hands. You know and now I hear that lots of mothers leave the kids or give for adoption. I be never give it adoption my kids. I be heared how there's some accident, you know some give, but they never get it. I don't b.elieve that. H.: You see a lot of women, right now, a lot of mothers, them and their husbands, and it's not because they want too much, it's just that they can't afford it.Things cost too much. Both of them have to work. You know, especially the young couples. Mrs. S.: Yah, and spended lots and drink lots and go to the show lots and have a good time lots H.: I can think of people who can't afford to do that, that are friends of mine. Mrs. S.: Why? H.: Because they have children and they can't afford it .. N.: How would you like to live on $160/mo ...... . H.: At any rate, at any rate ���� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Michalena Stepanik Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Mrs. Michalena Stepanik in Kenora, Ontario. The interview was performed by Helen Lovekin and Karen Dubinsky as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. During the interview, Mrs. Stepanik recalls her experience immigrating to Canada from Ukraine during the war, life during the depression, her experiences as a mother, and participating with the Ukrainian Labour Society and Ukrainian Women’s Association, where she served as president for 12 years. The recording consists of two sides of a cassette tape, available as two MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) The transcript is available by clicking on the image thumbnail. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 PDF Language A language of the resource English - Ukrainian Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Kenora Ukraine Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource [197?]-06-16 Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/1316ae3f9efb088b8500f9fd31a47c5b.mp3 bc5ac49c69b252ee1d9d939ae4b3b836 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/96c82d83ccfd9eff271614e094737b37.mp3 1562812d229405a3878d2ed2ecb7ef30 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/e8edbc418dc434a8a4ecb0564e3ae373.mp3 9cdd25ea31faea78501ab1554b0da148 https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/22b82481f28a7d852ddbcfb61cd713b0.pdf 1b87802b13a1b16b53a83a5752d01a5b PDF Text Text I ~,.5. L°'"°\ bl ~\()\(\On My earliest childhood memories go away back to the "Homestead". This was a section of wilderness land (in this case mostly rock) on which you had to build a house and clear so many acres of land to get a patent or ownership from the government. The two-story log house stood on the east side of the rocky clearing. I can still see the blackened stumps jutting up out of grass in summer, like monuments to the strong, tall trees that had once stood there.- Those trees .. now shelt;ered the young couple who had crossed an ocean, met here, were married soon after and decided to settle here. My father had left me in the care of a childless couple, after my own mother had died of child-birth fever. They had to work hard and long hours, but always had time and more than enough love for me. chores. I followed them around as they did their The cows, calves, pigs, and chickens had to be fed and looked after, and the eggs gathered and packed into square wooden boxes which held exactly twenty-four dozen. We had a few pigeons who flew right into the chicken house and had their own little nests. I waited anxiously for them to lay their eggs and only once wanted to fry the tiny egg. The big white "Leghorn"rooster had it in for me and would dig his sharp spurs into my legs or back. I would go screaming to the nearest shelter. When we had lots of cream, butter was churned. I could not reach to help with the big wood churns that stood on the floor and had to be plunged up and down. When the butter finally separated into golden yellow clumps, it was scooped out into i �large wooden bowls (these and the wooden spoons or ladles were winter or rainy day projects for the men to carve and smooth out), and washed in cold water, worked with a wooden spoon or ladle until no trace of buttermilk remained. Then it was salted, and allowed to stand in a cool place overnight, unless you were out of butter. It was delicious fresh, but if you were particular, you worked it some more and drained every trace of water. Then you would have nice yellow butter without any discolouration in it. If you sold the butter to the store, it had to be packed into one pound wooden moulds and wrapped in wax paper marked 'butter'. Of course before you had cream, the cows had to be milked, and the milk stained through a clean cloth (carefully washed and dried) into milk pails with lids. large tubs . The pails were then put into of cold water, which first had to be dr~ wn from the well by hand, and the water changed until the milk was cold. If you had a cool place to store the milk, you left it to stand until the cream formed on top. This was skimmed off into glass jars or enamel pails when possible. you churned. at this stage: When you had enough cream, The temperature of the cream was important too, too warm, the butter was soft and hard to wark; too cold and you churned and churned much longer. you had cream separators, of course. (Later on By haad, you turned the crank, and at the right speed). The women in the family worked hard. and ironing were. all done on the wood s~ove. The cooking, baking Flour and sugar was purchased in one hundred pound cloth bags, which were later used for dish towels, sheets for children's cots and underwear. 2 �I liked the smell of the green coffee beans being roasted in the black pans. The black pans were alwys used with wood- stoves, as they baked better. When the coffee beans were nice and brown, they were put into jars, and would be ground fresh every day in the coffee mill. I always begged to do this. In between, I played with my rag doll, and a big red tom-cat who followed me everywhere. In summer I rode on top of the hay loads back and forth from the fields. In winter, if the weather was not too cold, !-. ·would be bundled up in what seemed like yards of knitted woolen scarf, knitted mittens and heavy hose, felt boots or rubbers on wet days that laced up the front and had felt insoles in them. of for girls or ladies. men Ski-pants or slacks were unheard Then I wouldfide to the forest, where called "pulpwood cutters" or "lumberjacks" had cut spruce trees in four foot by four foot by eight foot piles, which was a cord of wood. These were sold to timber companies and then sent by rail or water to pulp mills to be made into paper. Birch cord-wood was cut and piled the same way; people mostly heated their homes with wood. This was how they made a living. It was hard, cold work, but better than the one dollar a day my foster father had earned on the Grand Trunk Railway. The land was rocky and not suitable for farming, but the trees were there; he had the foresight to see this. The "Homestead" and hard work paid off; they were able to buy three hundred and sixty acres of land near the village, which he later sold in ten acre lots and through which the Trans-Canada Highway now runs. It was indeed a happy day when visitors would come for a visit from a neighbouring homestead or from the village. 3 �Roads were not plowed and in spring break-up the dirt roads were bad. The visitors usually had news for the grown-ups, and the children played happily after the first shyness wore off. Blueberry time was a happy time, but the preserving was no picmic for the ladies. However the berries made good pies and desserts in winter, as I hardly ever remember having had fresh fruit in winter. It was nearly all dried fruits from which pies and the "Finnish Sweet Soup" was made. Carrots and potatoes were stored in root houses but there were no fresh green vegetables in winter--not even aabbage after the ones from the garden wilted. The stores in the village were interesting places to go and see. I've been told I turned my first ice-cream cone upside down and lost it. One of our neighbours got a "victrola" which had a big horn attached to it. After you wound it by a handle and put a cylinder-like thing on it called a record, it played music like I had never heard before. Until then I had only heard some of the "1 umbe rj~ks" play on a mouth organ, small accordion, a squeaky violin, and an oboe, and sing their folk songs leanned in their homelands. house. In winter they used the upstairs as a bunk The stories they told were always ·interesting. One poor guy from Finland had never seen pork and beans before. Because he had come in late one day, they had already cooled off, so he put them in a dessert bowl with sugar, and poured cream on them. He bravely tried to force them down, but finally my foster mother went over, took them away, and kindly explained they would taste better warm, and wouldn't he rather have a piece of her pie? He was quite happy to make the exchage. �The men had enormous appetites and needed the extra food to withstand the hard work felling, cutting the trees into four foot lengths, then piling them in deep snow. Suddenly my life changed. for me, with a new mother. I was told my father was coming How frightened I was! I still remem- ber lying curled as far in thecorner of the couch as I could get, with a sofa cushion over my head. Finally I peeked a bit; to my astonishment, this step-mother looked like a very nice lady. In the three years I lived with her, I grew very fond of her, but she was too frail for the harsh life she was living under now. She was expecting when the 'flu epidemic came and she did not pull through. I remember we had a "doctor" of sorts, who didn't or couldn't do anything to save her. me. Seeing her die was hard for The coffin was sent down by railroad and lay on the kitchen floor until the body was put in. opened again. Fortunately the coffin was not T~Q Anglican minister conducted a short service in English, which very few undertood. A big black wreath was hung on the front door, and I used to come up the back lane while we were still in that house, so I would not see the black wreath or be reminded of it. How I missed her! She had made Christmas morning, for the first time in my memory, a lovely day to wake up to, with lovely presents beside my bed--a little doll, wash tub and board, plus a small clothes line with small pegs for the doll clothes and some candy and fruit. ~~d The second Christmas we even Santa come to the house. s �After moving to Nipigon village with my father, I started school in the little United Church, as the one room school was too full and the new school not ready yet. In school I had to learn another language which was called English. The first year in the new school, I was learning to read out of the first Primer--"The little Red Hen found some wheat", who will help me plant the wheat, etc .. (Not long ago, I heard the little "Primer" being ridiculed, but I did learn to read, which I still love to do). As for spelling, a very young teacher taught me a lesson I never forgot. In Grade 3, her class was getting terrible marks in spelling. We were fooling around, so one morning she announced that any= one having more than three mistakes in spelling would get the strap. We were stunned, but we lined up for it. She did not hit hard, but it was the humiliation of having to go home and confess getting the strap. I was back with my foster parents at the time, liuing next to the present clinic and on Bell St. I knew they would only gently scold me, but !". ~new they would be hurt that I wasn't taking school seriously. They had not had the ch ~ nce to go to school of any kind and valued education highly. Needless to say, my spelling improved over-night, and never again, the strap. I could not do things I knew they would not approve of, even though I lived sometimes with them or batched with my father or was boarded out with older couples, where I ate, went to school, and mostly cried myself to sleep. But I loved school; weekends I dreaded. I remember learning to \\ It print 1921. I do not know why it remains in my memory. I , �remember, too, learning to draw the Union Jack, to colour it, and recite "The Union Jack is my flag." How happy I am that my grand-children have the "Maple Leaf", and can call it their very own, and I hope always with pride. I loved winter and s~ow, and skating, which I learned on a small back yard rink, and skiing on the hills. The roads were not plowed in winter, and only horse-drawn sleighs were used. The hill on Bell Street on the way home from school was ideal for sliding with a piece of cardboard when it was well packed and icy. There was a hollow in the hill that sort of catapulted you out - --tha t you couldn't beat for fun. spring, marbles and allies came out. until it was time to play ball. This was a game I enjoyed The C.P.R. field at the back of the station was a favourite spot after school hours. right through to the last year in school. the Lagoon. Twwards I p.bwed We went swimming in Now due to the carelessness of man, it is such a cesspool that even fish can not live in it. In summer we would walk down the C.N. tracks to the bridge to see who was fishing or go rowing in the lago on. Hop-scotch also was a good past -time, and I spent many hours at it. course, a picmic was exciting, with races and games. Of The first one that I can remember was near Lake Helen, about where Bob Matchett has his trailer park. We had sack racing, tug-of-war and egg-on-a-spoon(they weren't boiled ei~ her) races. Years later, there were sports booths etc. down at the far end of the lagoon where Thompson's cabins are. l �The occasional trip on the train to Port Arthur was enough to keep you awake all night--so many people, lights, and street cars. All those stores! Of course years before that electric lights had come to Nipigon. Just by pushing a button, instant light--no more matches or smelly coal-oil lamps. the first cars; my foster parents had one of the first four I was told the horses were under Mode~l T Fords in Nipigon. the hood. Unbelievable! ,, "Gentiles's chairs. Then ob and a nine day wonder was ice cream parlour, with white wire tables and And how could I forget the Player Piano. It was so pleasant to have some ice cream and listen to "Orient" (Gentile) Winfield pump out the music. In summer the big circus under a tent, with real live lions in a cage and huge elephants doing the heavy work was exciting too, with all the glitter and side shows. I remem- ber once seeing one of our oldest citizens bring his wife down to see it. She was half blind, but he held her hand and described to her what was going on and how everything looked. Years later he was criticized for being back at his job the day after she died. Perhaps he was right; life does have to go on. Until his time would come, by keeping busy, the day would go faster until he returned to the lonely house with so many memories. The Black Bay area has a very special place in my memory. My foster parents had by now(Iwas about ten years old at the time) started leasing rights to cut pulp (spruce trees mostly) on government owned or "crown"lands. The men had been busy all winter in the rough bush camps that had been made out of �logs. Rough lumber was hauled in by horse drawn work sleighs for the roof and floors. Rough bunks too were made, usually with douNe huge burlap bags ~£fed with hay . . Cou4rse grey blankets and your own sweater or mackinaw for a pillow served as bedding. A big camp stove, usually located centrally was the source of heat, with piles of fire-wood beside it. dried your clothes for the next day's work. Near it you Rough wash stands were provided with an aluminum wash bowl, and if you were lucky there would be hot water in a tub on top of the stove. One or two coal oil lamps served as light. early to bed and early to rise. It was Quite often saw blades had to be sharpened and the rope made tight on yourwooden buck-saw. Blades often broke or the wooden ends cracked. facilities or motorized saw here. No modern An illustrated book by William Kurelik is the most authentic book I have read on the harsh life of a lumberjack's life. it too, except for the dirt. The Finn lumberjacks were nearly all quite fussy about cleanliness. was built too. He tells it as I rem e ..10\).er Quite often a ste1n-bath However this one at Black Bay did not have one that I can r .em.e be,('. The cook-camp here was built together ui'"°' ~e. \,uV\',:_. house(>"~ tll\d only °"' "•c-\-i t,on be{"'->e.et\ ei,h ,hF Bttftk ~ettaF eni hof enl, s ~etyiyien nPyerPn iJp a ,+ , with a door which was only opened during meal-time. mother was cooking%erself. on the train for a visit. the weigh-freight stopped. My foster One Christmas holiday I went out From the lonely section house where I had a ride to the camp with the supplies that had come on the same train--hay, oats for the horses, groceries to feed the men. dad again (between step - mothers.) I was batching with my After the joy of seeing my �foster parents again, I told them my own news about school and how many of us had been sent home from school and told to wash our hair with some coal oil in the water. My horrified mother had water boiling on the stove and my hair was washed and washed, after first being cut short as a boy's. I was warned not to tell any of the men why . She wasn't taking any chances on any or all of the men leaving. Coming in on a small boat during the summer vacation, I again was a problem to her. I was told to walk or run from the boat over the pulp lpgs to get on shore. They were in a shallow cove, ~ held together by giant logs fastened by chains called "boom chains". I was sure I would drown or at least get all wet, but I made it, safe and sou64 Of cour se I did not know then that it was quite shallow underneath and the logs carried my witht easily. This time there was a boy my age at camp for a few days with his father. we paddled around in it all day. and sore. He had a little canoe,so Next morning I awoke stiff It was my job to fill the wood-box in the kitchen, but I could not bend. I finally noticed a large snow shovel, so I would slide this under the wood and managed to always get ak few sticks on it. Then I pulled it into the camp and let the wood slide off on to the floor. seriously. a red rash. After a few trips, I was taken By night I had a fever and was breaking out in I had finally come down with the measles. The school had been closed for one week during the winter for lack of pupils, but I ~ cl waited til now. Any contagious disease was viewed with alarm by the men in those days and could have meant closing the camp down, so I was covered with a 0 �sheet in bed, while the men ate because the cook and her family as well as any female helpers slept in the cook house. ~ Later we moved to another camp. My mother and I stayed alone there for sevral days while the men all went away some where. The mornings were beautiful. I would sit quietly and wait for the mother deer to bring her fawn for a drink. would play and splash like a young child. ilies came. the alert. It One day two fam- What fun they had, but the mothers were always on The porcupines would fighten us at night--was it a bear or just a porcupine? When the men came back the wood that was left on shore had to be pulled into a boom too so that a tug could pull the raft into the water and haul it away. This meant staying in water all day. get. How hungry I would Then we went to the camp for canned tomatoes in an enamel dish and a slice of cold ham. At the end of the week, I too was given a piece of paper that read'fivedollars'and my name. It was a cheque and with it I could get real money I had earned, ! do not remlber what I spent it on. From here we had to walk many miles on a bush road used by horses during the winter, now not much more than a path. Somewhere I had found a kitten. Carrying it in the crook of my arm, I was gQing up and over logs and rocks quite well until I disturbed a wasps' nest. screamed. They attacked my bare legs, and I A young man ahead of me shouted; "Don't show them the white of your teeth." To this day, I con't know what pos- sible harm that could of done, but a second time that day, I was stung. No one knew how many times I was stung, but by the time we reached the tracks, my legs were so swollen and sore that I sure didn't feel we4~ home. But I still had my kitten when we arrived \\ �My father at this time had very high-spirited horses, and it seemed to me they could run like the wind. We had a sleigh with a canvas cover something similar to a covered wagan. It had a rough floor in it, window in the front, and holes cut so the reins could be pulled inside. He had built small benches on both sides and there was a tiny tin camp stove with a pipe going out to the outside. The heat from it kept you from freezing, plus blankets and the heavy clothing everyone wore. My father would take a load of people up to a neighbouring small community of farmers about ten miles away. They had a one room school where social evenings were held once in a while. It seemed every one that could move was there. Whole families came, and when the children fell asleep they were carried upstairs where the school teachere had her room. There was lunch and coffee served--how good it was after a long cold trip. It was pleasant and exciting with the glow of the lantern (in winter the ·days are short), and the heat of the stove. I loved to watch the square dancers; they were having such fun. The older peole did not get out often and these were rare social events for them so they were making the most of the eventing. Pe cpi e seemed more friendly then or should I say sociable and children were tolerated. Summers I just roamed around bare-footed. I will always feel the warmth of the hot sand on the beach at Lake Helen and on the hill near the cemetary. The white short lillies grew ~(A~l\.' there in such abundance, but I aQ,etr'"t even seen one for years. I have told my family I wish to be buried there in the warm sand when my time comes-nowhere else. One day a friend and I were so busy picking hazel nuts we lost track of time. We found when we fau~~ r~mP hnmo ~~~~ �full bags of nuts that most of the village was out looking for us. We couldn't understand why all the fuss-we were not lost at all. Just too busy. On this same hill years later, when the hazel trees had been cut down, I ahd an experience I have not forgotten; Someone's cow had to be butchered, and they needed someone to Blood sausage was made from this ~ stir the blood from the cow. So I went, not knowing what I was in for, although I knew farm animals were raised for food. the clearing. There was a fence around The poor cow was knocked unconscious, but when the man went near to bleed it, she jumped up and started to run around the field. I headed for the fence and over it. He finally corneded the cow and finished the job. He yelled at me to come and stir, but I was too scared to move. result was lumpy blood, except what he drank warm. The Pancakes were made out of it, using whole wheat flour needless to say. C"~ \l'\O~ To this day, I cnncrt eat them. I remeber while living for awhile in Nipigon a fight with a C\ "c.l friend d-ft.s crying out,"I am going to tell my mother." friend retaliated by saying, "You have no mother". My Speechless I ran home sobbing,to my foster mother to find the truth. Her answer I do not remember, but whatever it was, she remained dear to me until she died at eight-four years. The steam-bath was a Saturday night ritual that no Finn missed if she could help it. The hot rocks spit and spattered when water was thrown on them--no wonder, the large rocks had been heated for hours. The remaing coals were carefully �drawn out because it would be very hard on the eyes if any trace of fire remained as in those days there were no chimneys so the smoke went out through vents near the ceitling or through an open window. As a result the walls were blacked by the smoke, but you came out clean and refreshed. Your clean clothes were laid out ready, the bed's clothes changed, and after the sauna, coffee or mild with freshly baked coffee bread made you ready for a relaxed sleep. Winter was making snow men, building snow forts and snowballs until your mittens were soaked and your mitts and fingers began to freeze. Skiing on home made skis--if you happei\ed to lose one going down-hill, too bad, you had to go down on one somehow, get your ski and try again. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Herstory Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herstory: Mrs. Hilja Lange Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Mrs. Hilja Lange in Nipigon, Ontario on August 21st, [197?]. The interview was performed by Karen Dubinsky as part of the Women's Decade Council Herstory project. The recording consists of three sides of two cassette tapes, available as three MP3 files. (Click on the speaker logo to play each file.) Text is available by clicking on the image thumbnail. During the interview, Mrs. Lange recalls growing up, going to school, and starting a family in Northwestern Ontario. She discusses the kinds of work she did throughout the years, working as wood hauler, in restaurants, and on her family’s land. She also talks about various other aspects of life in the earlier twentieth century, specifically around illness, war, and the depression years. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Release form was obtained by the Herstory project, allowing the recording to be shared and used. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Northwestern Ontario Women's Decade Council Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource [197?]-08-21 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Nipigon Canada - Ontario - Fort William Canada - Ontario - Port Arthur Subject The topic of the resource People Women's History https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/27425032f312a911813a91e420c4b616.jpg 739d43942143610244991da84eb522f1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ken Armson fonds Subject The topic of the resource Forestry Description An account of the resource A collection of thousands of photographic slides depicting Ken Armson's work in the field of forestry, 1952-1995. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952-1995 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource These images have been digitized and shared on this site with permission. Most are still under copyright. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hexagonal Cracking in Clay at Caledon, Where the Upper Horizons Have Been Eroded Away Subject The topic of the resource Forest Products Industry Description An account of the resource Hexagonal cracking in clay at Caledon, where the upper horizons have been eroded away. Mollisol, HC, S, E, D. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1958-07-15 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPG Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Armson-Soils-017 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Canada - Ontario - Caledon https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/1f2cab835f50bde5789f1d47691f88e3.jpg 51e5ef3811b749dd1358d7cf52dec8b9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Thunder Bay Finnish Canadian Historical Society Collection Subject The topic of the resource Finnish-Canadians Life in Thunder Bay Description An account of the resource Photographs collected by the Thunder Bay Finnish Canadian Historical Society from a wide range of collectors, documenting Finnish immigration to and life in Thunder Bay. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thunder Bay Finnish Canadian Historical Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Lakehead University Library Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MG8_D678Hi653 Title A name given to the resource Hieta and Santtu Subject The topic of the resource People Description An account of the resource Genealogy: Hieta and Santtu. Donor: Helen Laine. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPG Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/097e24942468b8e871cd17bd80ca8e2e.tif 06349f67689347d0e3939b786d779283 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ken Armson fonds Subject The topic of the resource Forestry Description An account of the resource A collection of thousands of photographic slides depicting Ken Armson's work in the field of forestry, 1952-1995. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952-1995 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource These images have been digitized and shared on this site with permission. Most are still under copyright. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hietikon Subject The topic of the resource Forest Products Industry Description An account of the resource Hietikon - clearing more land for plastic greenhouses Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource TIF Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Armson-Finland-112 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Finland Hietikon https://digitalcollections.lakeheadu.ca/files/original/1badf34573068104053694f08bd46a6d.tif 9a7732d55d026a93f7540138478b05f9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ken Armson fonds Subject The topic of the resource Forestry Description An account of the resource A collection of thousands of photographic slides depicting Ken Armson's work in the field of forestry, 1952-1995. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1952-1995 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource These images have been digitized and shared on this site with permission. Most are still under copyright. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hietikon - 1+0 BEv in paper pot Subject The topic of the resource Forest Products Industry Description An account of the resource Hietikon - 1+0 BEv in paper pot Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ken Armson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource TIF Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Armson-Finland-107 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Finland-Hietikon BEv Hietikon